Stop buggering around with Epiphones, save a little and buy Gibson

se7ent7 · 2009-10-17T14:51:27+00:00

Just a pet hobby/interest/rant of mine I have to let loose.. - if you're going to spend good money on a Les Paul, rather sit and wait for a good deal on a...

Stop buggering around with Epiphones, save a little and buy Gibson

se7ent7

aubs1 => yeah sorry that was a bit of a typo - i fixed it.

MikeM => Sorry my friend, but you are simply wrong.
Last month my friend got a Gibson LP deluxe 1980 for
R8k (yes it was in gumtree). The sellers aren't stupid,
the moment they sell the item they delist it to avoid
1000's of inquiry emails from chancers.

I did buy a LP standard for R7.5k a year ago and I actually
dragged my feet a little.. So they don't even always go instantly..

There were R5500-R7000 SG's in Gumtree recently and
a Studio for R6k
And remember, just because an asking price is X don't
think they might not accept a lower offer! Try and offer R7.5 or R8k
to one of these okes who has a Gibbo in for R9 or R10k, you never
know...

MikeM, you might be a regular trawler but your net seems
to have some holes in ? Just keep going, you'll have your
"great buy" story soon!

MikeM

In that case, can I send you my mail address and you drop me a headsup when you see any ads like this? ?

se7ent7

DonovanB:

I don't think I would have. At least not for now (maybe when I'm very rich....) I'm tired of bottom of the range guitars. I'd much rather pay more money for a top of the range Nissan Navarra than a bottom of the range Range Rover. My choice was based on how the guitar played and felt as well as price. I would choose a nice chunky copy Les Paul over a Studio or junior any day. I hate those... in fact, I prefer the strat in any case...

A Gibson Les Paul studio is a standard without binding. Ok, maybe not 100% but pretty damn close. Lets keep the Burstbuckers vs 498T/496R out of this. Thats a personal choice, and the 49x series pups are in LP Customs anyway. Gibson LP Studios simply kill Epi standards & customs. Owned a few examples of both, I know.
PS: Despite all this ranting about Lesters, I'm a strat man too.. My '82 MIJ strat is First Wife ?

according to thespecs online , they are very close, Mahogony body, maple neck (there are sopme differences in the neck though) and the hardware is different although I have Grover Machine heads which I am happy with. Truly, I think you are guessing your info.
QUite frankly, if someone like Zakk Wylde would put his name proudly to that guitar I'm happy.

Seriously? You can probably find a very good carpenter or junior luthier in SA - you can give him those
specs and the species of woods and he could make you a 'replica' that has the same mahogany
body, maple neck and the correct measurements. Will it sound and feel like a Gibson? No, probably
not even nearly as good as an SX copy.
Tonewoods Tonewoods Tonewoods. Preparing and choosing the correct wood samples are
a huge part of the end product. And then there is nitro vs thick cheap gloss finish, the
quality and composition of nut materials and bridge & hardware metals, quality of wiring (though that
can be changed), etc.

Why do you think a Taylor 110 or 210 kills most all-solid-wood R15k Cort Custom shop acoustics?
Tonewoods & craftsmanship!
The quality of the solid spruce top and the manufacturing of the laminate back and sides by Taylor are just
miles ahead of the tonewood quality and construction done by Cort (although they are
damn good by now - I'm not dissing Cort - great value for money!).

Ok, so electric guitars are more the sum of parts but the woods, finish & nut material are still a big part, not to
mention the craftsmanship and experience behind the luthiers and in the company.

You don't understand GAS do you? although it is smart advice to rather get the best guitar you can afford so you can avoid wanting to constantly upgrade your gear, I think your perception of a brand name vs the actual make up of the guitar is flawed.

Dude you have no idea... I have too much, and that's why I've owned so many Epis and Gibbos
(and all other sorts) by now ?

se7ent7

MikeM => Indeed I will if my GAS is under control and I'm not scooping it up myself ?

[deleted]

I say save your money and get a PRS singlecut if you have too.

then i say...

http://www.edroman.com/rants/les_paul_necks.htm

'nuff said ?

Reinhard

Ed Roman really isn't the kind of guy you want to be quoting. He has hos own agenda and is not a beloved character
http://edroman.aleclee.com/main.html
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/31098-no-more-ed-roman.html

Explorerlover

...or just get yourself a ESP Eclipse CTM 1

aubs1

? ? ? .......Ed Roman huh????? ?

Nice reply post Reinhard...... :applause:

[deleted]

Reinhard wrote: Ed Roman really isn't the kind of guy you want to be quoting. He has hos own agenda and is not a beloved character
http://edroman.aleclee.com/main.html
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/31098-no-more-ed-roman.html

Yes i know he is a bombastic prick, you need to look at his site for 10 seconds to see that ? BUT... somehow I don't think he needed to lie about the article that I posted... I think a few others know about Gibsons neck problems?

AND PICTURES DONT LIE!!

AlanRatcliffe

Yes, it's very dangerous to use Ed Roman as an "informed" source. He's a loud, opinionated A.H. whose story changes depending on whether he is selling the product or not. He used to rave about PRS until PRS cut him off - then he started ranting about them.

However, in this case he's mostly right, ( I used to call Gibson headstock repairs my "bread and butter" jobs, alongside fitting pickups and setups). Any angled headstock is prone to breakage where the truss nut is unless it has a volute, the neck is laminated or the neck is scarf jointed (like Ibanez). What he doesn't say is that Gibson added a volute in 1969 and changed it in the '70s as well as changing the neck to a three-piece laminate and reducing the angle - they later changed it all back due to customer demand for the "vintage style" LPs. Epiphones are a shallower angle, BTW).

Counter to his other claims though, there is no problem with using mahogany for necks (look at how many old Martins are still going strong with no breaks). Weight also doesn't have anything to do with it (the SG is also prone to breakage).

Reinhard

Yeh SG neck joints are prone to trouble, especially the vintage ones. And gibsons are known for headstock breaks, but you still need to drop one or neck bend the hell out of it to get that to happen. I'm glad my ones survived the 1000's of Km's in the hands of couriers who aren't that gentle with packages. That's always the biggest fear when opening the case lol. But seriously, my guitars are in cases, I don't bend the neck like Slash and I don't swing the guitar around my body by the strap. I use strap locks and when I'm not playing them they are in the case. The strat is kept where ever I put it down lol Those suckers are sturdy, just look at SRV surfing his strat.

[deleted]

Reinhard wrote: Yeh SG neck joints are prone to trouble, especially the vintage ones. And gibsons are known for headstock breaks, but you still need to drop one or neck bend the hell out of it to get that to happen. I'm glad my ones survived the 1000's of Km's in the hands of couriers who aren't that gentle with packages. That's always the biggest fear when opening the case lol. But seriously, my guitars are in cases, I don't bend the neck like Slash and I don't swing the guitar around my body by the strap. I use strap locks and when I'm not playing them they are in the case. The strat is kept where ever I put it down lol Those suckers are sturdy, just look at SRV surfing his strat.

Haha yeah Reinhard I shipped a guitar in once, it's flight path was Montana -> New York -> Paris -> London -> Johannesburg -> .... um yeah then to the Free State.. quite a few years back!! I have to say I was stressing.

True if you look after them nothing should happen... I still want an ES-ANYTHING tho ?

Reinhard

I think the important thing is to loosen the strings a bit, you don't want to ship it tuned.

AlanRatcliffe

I've actually fixed a few Studios where the headstock breaks after a bump on the endpin. ? Strange, but true.

Reinhard

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I've actually fixed a few Studios where the headstock breaks after a bump on the endpin. ? Strange, but true.

That is strange. Man that would make me paranoid if it happened ☹

aubs1

Reinhard wrote:
Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I've actually fixed a few Studios where the headstock breaks after a bump on the endpin. ? Strange, but true.
That is strange. Man that would make me paranoid if it happened ☹

Me too!!.........solution.......don't bump on the endpin! ?

But then I don't have a Studio, is this true for the Standards as well Alan? (Or is this a stupid question?)

AlanRatcliffe

I've not seen/heard of it happening with a standard. The first studios we saw here in SA were pretty bad quality-wise, so that might be a factor. One even came back to me a second time, broken in a slightly different place - which I've never had happen on another model. Usually once they are fixed they resist breaking again.

Cannon

Just getting back to the original topic...i recently bought a 94 Epi Les Paul "Clasic" Birdseye top, from a guy who just wanted to get rid of it for dirt cheap. If i told u how much u would cry!
Anyway a friend of mine purchased a Gibbo LP standard a year or two back so we hauled the 2 guitars out a few weeks ago at a live venue, plugged them into a vintage tube amp and got goin.
The outcome was almost identical in tone, feel and weight! In fact if i was blindfolded i dont think i would have been able to tell the difference.
The Epi was made in Korea and is one of the classic series made up to 60's LP specs including the 490 bucker specs. I have played a lot of Gibsons in my life but this epi for some reason is almost sweeter still!
I'm sure there is a lot of crap out there but i will put this Epi up against anything Gibson throws at me!
I have been playing guitar for 20 years and so far this is in the top 5 i've played!

But dont worry....i still wont say no to an LP Custom!!!
Later
C.

singemonkey

I'll grind my usual axe. It's only my opinion, but I feel the need to put it out there in these conversations.

I've played the odd epiphone. They are fine beginner's guitars but overpriced. They are not close to Gibsons. This is not to say you can't get great examples. You can also get great Chinese Squiers. So what's the point of the debate or the "bash?" The point is: Are epiphones good guitars to buy if you want a Gibson but can't afford one?

I say no.

If you can find one for under R3k, it might be worth considering based on the individual guitar. But the Epiphone's official link to Gibson does not put it among the top ten replicas of Gibson guitars - or even does much for the resale price.

If you want a cheap Gibson clone that substitutes nicely for a Gibson (or even exceeds the quality of a shifty one), order a used Japanese clone online (Tokai, Edwards by ESP - http://www.kurosawagakki.com/items/detail/31899.html - Greco, Burny, Orville by Gibson, or Bacchus), buy a Tokai through TokaiSA - www.tokaiguitars.co.za - or find an exceptional deal on a used Gibson.

I think the last option is the hardest. Gumtree trawlers make competition for real deals fierce. Also, you will frequently have to make big compromises on condition or model of guitar. A Les Paul Studio for e.g., leaves out a lot of Les Paul for its low price. I don't know anyone who dreams of one day owning one. Rather than an LP Studio, I'd say a Flying V. IMO, that's the cheapest Gibson worthy of the name.

But a dream Gibson might be very messed up if it's going for cheap. You can get a good deal on a used Gibson. But you can't bank on it. You may wait years.

So I'll bore you all again: Japanese guitars. Buy direct: http://www.kurosawagakki.com/ - just make sure you get a hard case cos the Gibson design is fragile.

Or forget the anxieties of shipping and duties and buy a Tokai through one of TokaiSA's retailers. I'll keep saying it. Tokai makes 50's and 60's Gibsons starting at Epiphone prices.

se7ent7

singemonkey => Well said! My point exactly, although, I'll have to disagree with your take on the Studios. I've owned 3 studios and 2 standards, and the studios are great value & excellent Lesters. All 5 Gibbos varied widely though. And some studios even have very nice ebony boards which are great for some folks, and which you'll only get on a Custom otherwise.

Anyway, another axe worth mentioning as a better (and even cheaper!) alternative to an Epi is Yamaha.
I won't even mention the vintage SG2000 / SGx series that Santana made popular - that goes without saying - and
they're getting in the R10k+ region by now... but the new AES series, spesifically the AES 620 (and up) are monsters!
Ok, so you're not getting a exact LP shape - and some folks might call it ugly - but rather a unique, solid LP
style guitar from a respected company than a blatantly budget one from a sister company, eh?
They also come with better hardware and much better pups (Seymour Ds) stock.

You can sometimes pick an AES620 up for around R3500. Epi killer ? Oooh, Lets start the flames again ?

I wish we see more second hand Tokais, Burny, Orvilles , Grecos and Edwards in SA. Then there would barely
be a need for this thread *sigh*