Stop buggering around with Epiphones, save a little and buy Gibson

se7ent7

Just a pet hobby/interest/rant of mine I have to let loose..
- if you're going to spend good money on a Les Paul,
rather sit and wait for a good deal on a Gibson Les Paul studio.
You can rant all you want about how
good an Epi with replacement USA pups may be, but that's just because
you've probably never owned a Gibson USA.

Epis are becoming unrealistically expensive for what they are, and
for the R6 - R7k some people are selling them for now you can almost or
or actually buy a good Gibson Les Paul studio - or even a battered 80s or 90s
standard or classic if you're lucky.

They're miles apart and worth the extra cash. Epis feel and sound
like toys compared to good or even medium Gibbos. I've owned
3 studios and two standards - and some Epis before that -
I know what I'm talking about.

You can pick up a good LP studio for between R7000 and R12k
(maybe even lower) if you wait around a bit. And if you're not
specifically after an LP go for the Faded series Gibson SG. There
have been some floating around for between R5500 and R7500
recently. Miles better than any Epi..

Epi's may "look" better but its only skin deep (literally - their "flame
maple tops" are only flamed maple veneers. They're all just cheap
chinese plain top maple caps underneath.)

The other option is Epiphone Elite/Elitist Japanese made Les Pauls,
but you don't see them in SA. What you do see sometimes (although
rarely) is some fine 70's,80s and 90s Japanese replicas like Orville and
Tokai. Most of them are actually or almost on par with Gibson USA.
Another option is to look for some early 80's Ibanez Japan artists or
set-neck LP copies - but they are a rare find these days.
The Japanese know what they're doing. The Koreans are learning
and the Chinese are noobs, but slowly getting there ? In the meantime
save a bit and buy Gibson USA (its not so far out of your reach than
you think!).

Another thing to mention, is that an alternative option to Gibson/Epis
in terms of double humbucker mahogany set-neck axes
are the Korean made PRS SE guitars. Much much better than any Epi
and only slightly more expensive second hand.

MikeM

Please link me to any Gibsons for R5500-R7500? I would go for one in a heartbeat.

AlanRatcliffe

I say nothing </manuel> ?

Werner-Carstens

I agree that Epi's are not the same quality as Gibsons, but it is also not claimed to be. It simply means that you by the Epi knowing that it does not represent the same as quality and craftmanship as a Gibson. In a near perfect world where Gibson costs the same as Epi of course we will all by the Gibson.
Until then the big question remains: Does the difference in price between a Gibson and an Epi really reflect the difference in quality?

racman

WOW - two threads started on knocking Epi's and those who might have or will purchase one. I guess you wanted to make a point ? ?

Vick

Recently iv kinda been thinking about it...but tel me,why,on the gibson site,r the epi sig. customs(zakk whyld and slash)more expensive then the faded lp and sg studios?

R gibson just taking a fat chance or what...
Awsum rant that makes sence btw :d

Tokai-SA

Alan Ratcliffe wrote I say nothing </manuel> ?

My lips are sealed. ?

DonovanB

I'll add my 2c in here...

I recently had the option of buying a Gibson Les Paul standard for R11k. It looked awesome and was in the original case. It had the look of a well used guitar, the paint was slightly faded and scratched and all it was lacking was gold hardware.

I ended up buying an Epiphone LP, Zakk Wylde for R4500 and then got a case for R500. The Spec between the Epi and the Gibson Wylde models are fairly close, but the difference between my bullseye and the Gibson I saw are not enough to warrant me paying R6k more for a name. If I add on a few bucks you'll get how much Francis sold me his strat for. Now I have the Fender and the Bullseye Les Paul.

(its not so far out of your reach than you think!).

Do you live in SA?

I'm actually over this whole Gibson debate. I also need a med lemon... groan...

aubs1

MikeM wrote Please link me to any Gibsons for R5500-R7500? I would go for one in a heartbeat.

Hey Mike, I would go for two!!!!! ? ?

chris77

I hear Bazaars of China makes Gibbos in that price range...

racman

put me down for three as well please :?

RobK

Guys, Guys, you're thinking small time here!!! At R5500 - R7500 I'm thinking container full - then resell at prices everyone expects to pay - eeaaasy money ?

se7ent7

MikeM => Of course they aren't numerous, but they really do come along in that price range - you just have to keep your eyes peeled, and cash ready.

Less than a year ago I bought a '94 Standard Lester in cherry burst for R7500 in Centurion.

Recently in the Western Cape there have been some Faded and Special/Junior SG's for R5500 - R8000.
And some Studios for between R6k and R8k.

DonavanB => I'm sure you're Epiphone Zakk Wylde is a great axe. My point is that if you did
buy the Gibbo in the end, after owning it, I'm fairly certain you'd have come to the conclusion
that it was worth the extra R6k. As for being able to buy a strat as well, thats a different story - and
a good point. Depends how much a Lester will be your number 1 axe.

You say the spec between a Gibson LP and Epi are 'fairly close'. They are not.
The measurements and some plastic parts may be close, but that's where it ends.
Despite the obvious thing - the pickups & pots (which by the way every Epi owner should replace) -
The thing is that despite everything said these days, Gibson USA still uses
superior (dried, prepared, chosen) tonewoods for their Studios and Fadeds than Epiphone
does for even their most expensive models.

My rant ran a bit long, and diverged a bit. My main point concerns Gibson Les Paul Studios vs. Epiphone Les Paul standards, customs and artist models.
My MAIN POINT is this: rather save a little and buy a good used Gibson Les Paul Studio than a 'high end', custom or artist edition Epiphone.
They may not look better, but they are betters axes for sure - and their resale value will not drop and probably increase.
If you wait around a bit, the price difference is less than you think, especially with Epi prices on the rise...

MikeM

Sorry guy you are talking crap. I am the resident gumtree trawler - along with Stratisfear, and unless you have some awesome contact to find second hand guitars, they do not sell that cheap.

And yes, I check Jhb and after that I check national. Around 3 - 10 times a day (OCD yes I know)

I get your point but your argument is flawed. They do not go that cheap. It's simple. Epi's sell for R5k+ nowadays.

aubs1

se7ent7 wrote .......... - and their resale and ownership value will not drop and probably increase.

There's the contradiction right there...... at least you got that right. ?

Reinhard

Deals are out there. I sold a 2003 LP standard in mint condition, with historic rings, upgraded electronics (including SD 59 and Angus Young pup) for 15K if I remember correctly. I owned an epi before the LP as that was all I could afford. You do feel a difference between the guitars, the Gibson just feels solid. If I was pushed for cash I would get a studio, or one of the faded series Gibson. I must say it could be fun getting a faded and refinishing it. I "sold" a 335 for 14K, and for double the price of a new epi, you get a lot of guitar. I guess it comes down to buy what you can afford now, or save for what you really want. The latter will save you a lot of money in the long run. Oh yes and buy used.
Please don't see this as epi bashing, it's not. I enjoyed the one I had, and my buddies epi special sounds GREAT through my Classic 30's gain channel.

inflames

Before you all go and sell your Epi's and buy R7k Gibson's consider the following:

Your guitar is important, but rather upgrade your amp before buying a Gibson.
Playing a Gibson through your Marshall MG will be like playing a Epi on the amp.

You should first find yourself a decent Valve amp, then only go and buy a Gibson.

I owned a Epi until the flood destroyed it, and it is a great sounding guitar!
I'm not debating that Epi is in the same league as Gibson, but the majority of guitar players is still in school or varsity.
They can't afford a R15k guitar, in the long run upgrading their amps would be the better choice!

chris77

I am not dissing any brands and would love to own a Gibson or three, but I am with the Epi fans on this one. HOWEVER, I think its ridiculous how Epi's and Squires are advertised at over inflated prices to potential victims based on their association with Gibson and Fender. It bolsters the argument that you pay more for the brand name than the actual instrument merits. And a Epi or Squier is, with exceptions, still a midrange guitar on par with its Eastern brethren like Ibanez and Cort and not top end models like Gibson, Fender and the likes. (Btw, I own a Epi, Squier, Cort and a few Ibanez's and love them all. Great value for money) The thing is people are suckers when it comes to advertising hype, so once a brand becomes popular or desirable you will always pay more than you should. Its true for Gibson, its true for Epi's and its true for everything else. Tell em its a pair of undies and they will pay x amount for it. Tell em its a pair of CK undies and the price tripples. The tell em it its CK undies worn by Zac Efron and David Beckham and you can almost name your price. Still the same support and comfort as the first pair though....

Sean

MikeM wrote ...unless you have some awesome contact to find second hand guitars, they do not sell that cheap.

:yup:

DonovanB

se7ent7 wrote DonavanB => I'm sure you're Epiphone Zakk Wylde is a great axe. My point is that if you did
buy the Gibbo in the end, after owning it, I'm fairly certain you'd have come to the conclusion
that it was worth the extra R6k. As for being able to buy a strat as well, thats a different story - and
a good point. Depends how much a Lester will be your number 1 axe.

I don't think I would have. At least not for now (maybe when I'm very rich....) I'm tired of bottom of the range guitars. I'd much rather pay more money for a top of the range Nissan Navarra than a bottom of the range Range Rover. My choice was based on how the guitar played and felt as well as price. I would choose a nice chunky copy Les Paul over a Studio or junior any day. I hate those... in fact, I prefer the strat in any case...

You say the spec between a Gibson LP and Epi are 'fairly close'. They are not.
The measurements and some plastic parts may be close, but that's where it ends.
Despite the obvious thing - the pickups & pots (which by the way every Epi owner should replace) -
The thing is that despite everything said these days, Gibson USA still uses
superior (dried, prepared, chosen) tonewoods for their Studios and Fadeds than Epiphone
does for even their most expensive models.

according to thespecs online , they are very close, Mahogony body, maple neck (there are sopme differences in the neck though) and the hardware is different although I have Grover Machine heads which I am happy with. Truly, I think you are guessing your info.
QUite frankly, if someone like Zakk Wylde would put his name proudly to that guitar I'm happy.
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Zakk-Wylde-Les-Paul-Bullseye/Features.aspx
http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=151&CollectionID=6

My rant ran a bit long, and diverged a bit. My main point concerns Gibson Les Paul Studios vs. Epiphone Les Paul standards, customs and artist models.
My MAIN POINT is this: rather save a little and buy a good used Gibson Les Paul Studio than a 'high end', custom or artist edition Epiphone.
They may not look better, but they are betters axes for sure - and their resale and ownership value will not drop and probably increase.
If you wait around a bit, the price difference is less than you think, especially with Epi prices on the rise...

You don't understand GAS do you? although it is smart advice to rather get the best guitar you can afford so you can avoid wanting to constantly upgrade your gear, I think your perception of a brand name vs the actual make up of the guitar is flawed.