MIKA-the-better-one
So, I am struggling to decide wether to get a vintage 72 fender twin, or a fender hot rod deluxe.
Both are second hand but one obviously more than the other.
I love the twin my fav but would it be more unreliable or hard to maintain
The hot rod is great but not as cool or powerful as a twin all in all its a bit boring.
What do you think?
matta
Honestly the Twin is MORE reliable and EASIER to repair/maintain.... as someone who works on amps/gear daily it is MUCH easier and more reliable to be working on a classic point to point amp... based on the years I'm assume the twin is a silverface, not as nice as the blackfaces IMHO, but still a great amp none the less.
Depending on the condition of the amp the initial repair/service costs might be a bit of a sting, but once recapped, retubed, rebiased and a general overhaul you should be good to go for another 20 years (bar the occasional tube replacement).
Cheers
Matt
AlanRatcliffe
Quite different amps. Twins are made for clean headroom and only start breaking up at 7-8 volume (which is actually painfully loud). They are the ultimate clean amps, but take pedals very well.
The Hot Rod Deluxe starts breaking up a lot sooner on the dial (about 4 IIRC). Modern construction. To be honest I don't like the overdrive much (I far prefer it's brother, the Blues Deluxe). Still a decent amp and plenty loud though - it's just it doesn't do really loud cleans like a Twin.
As Matt pointed out, the Twin is a lot more reliable and easier to repair. My Blackface is 44 years old and battered, but still going strong. I also prefer the Blackfaces, but the Silverface is still a great amp and is going for less on the second hand market.
S I'd go for the Twin if I were you...
MIKA-the-better-one
thats all i needed to hear, I really want the twin so I just need to justify getting it. I like the clean headroom, I have been recording with a super twin my buddy has and its well ...... amazing..... but very loud.
As a rough estimate how much would i be looking at for a recap, retube, all that lovely stuff? And any good ideas where to go?
AlanRatcliffe
Either Matt or Karel Mars will do a good job. Karel recapped my Twin a few months ago and replaced the power valves (just with some cheap Chinese valves he had - I wasn't sure if I was going to keep it or sell it on) and rebiased and it worked out surprisingly cheap. But speak to either of them to get a ballpark figure.
Mr-M
Both Matta and Karel are in Cape Town though. MIKA, if want contact details for some of the local Gauteng amp repair techs, PM me.
I gave MIKA completely the opposite advice when he emailed me - mostly because I hate carrying heavy gear (hence the Night Train), so I almost always recommend the lighter option unless you're planning to play huge gigs or are intent on losing your hearing. ?
Still the Twin is a killer option in tone, weight and volume! ? Seriously, jokes aside, it is a good choice.
AlanRatcliffe
Mr M wrote
I gave MIKA completely the opposite advice when he emailed me - mostly because I hate carrying heavy gear (hence the Night Train), so I almost always recommend the lighter option unless you're planning to play huge gigs or are intent on losing your hearing. ?
Very true. I had one for a while when I was gigging and loved it, but gave it back after carrying it a few times. Only got another one long after I stopped gigging. But I am admittedly lazy that way. But then, the same thing can be said about a Vox AC30 (or AC50), Marshall stacks, or any 2X12 combo.
MIKA's main concern seemed to be with servicability, rather than weight. He doesn't say he has a problem with his AC50, so I presumed he wouldn't with a Twin. Anyway, that's why trolleys were invented. ?
matta
Hah Hah,
Mr M, I'm with you!
Do really need that much raw power? (With great power come great aural responsibility!)
I have a vintage '64/65 AC30 (30W+) and '67 Fender Bandmaster (40W) and they KILL ME. That said if you want GOBS of clean headroom and want to use pedals for your overdrive/distortions then a higher wattage amp is great.... even if it is a back breaker!!!
Cheers
Matt
Mr M wrote
Both Matta and Karel are in Cape Town though. MIKA, if want contact details for some of the local Gauteng amp repair techs, PM me.
I gave MIKA completely the opposite advice when he emailed me - mostly because I hate carrying heavy gear (hence the Night Train), so I almost always recommend the lighter option unless you're planning to play huge gigs or are intent on losing your hearing. ?
Still the Twin is a killer option in tone, weight and volume! ? Seriously, jokes aside, it is a good choice.
AlanRatcliffe
Actually the power of the Twin isn't a problem for me - because it still sounds great turned down. I switch between that for cleans and my AC15 for crunch tones and I have to have Graeme's Tube Tamer attenuator on the AC15 to keep the volume levels sensible. ?
Mr-M
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
Anyway, that's why trolleys were invented. ?
True. If you don't use a trolley with a Twin you run the risk of having javelin thrower's arm: one big, muscular arm (the carrying arm) and one scrawny musician's arm. Seriously, why amp makers (not just Fender - all of them) only put one handle on anything that weighs over 30kg is beyond me. Although a VOX AC30 is incredibly heavy, at least there's two handles on either side of the center carry handle to make carrying it easier with a friend or band mate to help (one at each end). Even then an AC30 is torture to carry, but a Twin...rather more so. ?
matta wrote
Do really need that much raw power? (With great power come great aural responsibility!)
That's a great line! I'm still a relative youngster but these days I have ears that are very sensitive to volume because of not looking after my hearing for several years worth of loud drummers and louder amps. Being exclusively a bass player for four years didn't help either! ? I use Alpine Musicsafe earplugs, which are quite effective at keeping things at a comfortable level and to stop my ears from buzzing. They come with 3 different sets of volume attenuators (9, 15 and 20db). I hardly ever play guitar without them in.
djpauw
All of the above statements by Matta and Alan are not only spot-on but they also constitute the reasons why I am building my own copy of the Twin...
The other reasons of course being that I can implement all the mods and adjustments I like or want while in construction as opposed to redoing an existing amp.
Just my 2c
DJ
MIKA-the-better-one
Yeh, I dont mind carrying a heavy amp, its the price I will pay for a great sound, I am going to get the twin this saturday hopefully provided i dont get a better offer... unlikely. I use Alot of pedals as MrM would know as he and I fuel one anothers obsession so the twin i guesse would be better for that, lathough a hot rod is not bad with pedals. all in all the twin carrys wore cool mojo with it, and if its true that they would be pretty reliable then great, I have been assured that the amp is all fine internally and has never let the current owner down, also the valves are not to old, the power amp ones i think 18months, those being the oldest. As long as there are some good amp techs. OOOH quickly would putting new vinyle on the exterior depreciate the value? And where could i get this done?
Vick
Vinlye...? WHAT leave it alone!
(Pointing vinger)
Just kiding...i think it wil damige the value depending on who ur gona sell it to.....
Then agen i dont know much about this stuf
Just for a momint...emagen that amp in surf green...whould be awsum B-)
MIKA-the-better-one
ooh i do like surf green, fender plus surf green = VERY COOL.
well the amp looks kinda like someone gnawed at it for hours for the age that is accpetable i guesse, just wondering if you can get new vinyle put on so it appears pleasing although the rough look is cool to.
matta
Any recovering with depreciated the value if you are selling it to a collectors, but to be quite honest the Silverface's are not exactly the most collectible amps and as such can be had for alot less. If you want a longer lasting covering you should look at using the correct tolex (the technical term for the amp covering).
Cheers
Matt
MIKA-the-better-one
yeh, I do intend to try and cover it i guesse, I dont mind collectors being scared off, like you say silverfaces are not that collectable, plus I will be gigging this quite alot soon so need it to be tip top. Any idea where I can get this tolex?
matta
MIKA the better one wrote
yeh, I do intend to try and cover it i guesse, I dont mind collectors being scared off, like you say silverfaces are not that collectable, plus I will be gigging this quite alot soon so need it to be tip top. Any idea where I can get this tolex?
Not sure of any local stockists, I normally import it from the US, it is sold by the yard and cost depends on type/material/pattern.
Matt
Mr-M
Mika, a friend of mine has some white/ cream Vinyl, like what you get on the VOX Heritage amps. Looks cool, but not always the best idea for a gigging amp. If you want me to find out if he's selling and how much, let me know.
MIKA-the-better-one
hey man i actually might be keen i would dig that..... if you could get me a quote? also would you email me those details for all the good amp techs in gauteng? thamks dude
Mr-M
I'll check with him on the vinyl for you in the morning. I'll have to get you the contact details of those guys tomorrow as well - they're on my laptop which i conveniently left at work. ?
