mic'ing up a nylon string ...... vs internal pick up .the road test ......

Keira-WitherKay

damn this is a huge step for me......... if you had asked me 2 months ago..... would i ever play a pro gig with a mic'ed up nylon i woulda thought the idea was ridiculous........ and was a believer in undersaddle pick ups and internal condensers mixed .......
but i'm afraid the worm has turned friends......

for the last few weeks i have been playing my new .well old 37 yrs old nylon i recently aquired...... it does not have a pick up ..... so i been using it mic'ed up ..... i first tried a sm 57 which was ok ...... but eventually now settled on an old audio technica condenser mic i had in my gig bag.......

ok 1stly i have an awesome production line ymaha CGX that is equiped with fab pickups and sounds great but this "old" guitar just blows it away for tone........ so i have been experimenting live with it.......

also i tried using a "bug" type pickup on the old nylon and my GE7 pedal to get a good sound.........and i spent truly many hours over 2 days tweaking it to get that natural sound ..... A/Bing to the natural sound of the guitar all the time ...and taking enough breaks that my ears never got tired.......... after i was happy ....... and even played a few songs with my full percussion setup through my 12" PA quite loud...... and i thought the sound was great ..............

then came the moment of truth i switched on the condenser mic......... and wow the direct sound sounded just that......direct.... and the mic'ed sound was natural and added nuances that were not in the direct sound.....but in the unplugged sound..............this was a revelation for me .......cos before the A/B i was actually quite excited that i had cracked a cool sound with the pickup .......... it was definitely a workable sound for any pro gig.........but when A/B'd it fell way short of the mark.......

i even tried using both but that ended up with me turning down the direct sound so much it was better off.........

i then compared to my CGX and again the mic'd sound just sounded more natural........

so there you have it ...... and i'm writing this after a way cool gig playing flamenco quite loud .... one of my louder gigs and using just the condenser aimed just off the sound hole onto the upper frets.....and not a bit of feedback and i'm learning how to lean in and pull back that few mm to get the nuances right ... mic technique for guitar.......

oh well i'm still deciding if i like this guitar enough to invest in a LR baggs classical pickup for it ...... i do think they prob the better nylon pick up on market at moment ....... since i do realise on really loud concerts ...like at festivals this mic'ing might be a prob......... so wanna have best of both worlds ........

but for anything short of a festival i will be mic'ing it up in future........

also having a guitar thats totally unplugged is a way cool vibe... well for me...... allows me to toss it about as i like .... and i do ......

so yeah even old dogs can learn new tricks.........

so now i'm gonna spend some time experimenting with different mic's and improving my mic technique ...and every show i feel more comfortable with the mic technique.........it's definitely something which needs to be learnt .......... so exciting days......

and i have a nylon guitar sound that i adore . to me it must sound like it's unplugged but just louder......... and wow i finally have it.......

peace and light
keira

Manfred-Klose

wow that is a huge leap.

Maby even try mic'ing up in stereo if your up to it?

Keep us updated on the mic'ing techniques, nylon string guitars is one of the more difficult intruments to capture.

AlanRatcliffe

also having a guitar thats totally unplugged is a way cool vibe... well for me...... allows me to toss it about as i like .... and i do ......

That's usually a big problem for miking up an acoustic, because you run the risk of big changes in volume or even knocking against the mic.

...or is the AT mic a lavalier mic that you can clamp directly on to the guitar soundhole?

Keira-WitherKay

Alan Ratcliffe wrote
also having a guitar thats totally unplugged is a way cool vibe... well for me...... allows me to toss it about as i like .... and i do ......
That's usually a big problem for miking up an acoustic, because you run the risk of big changes in volume or even knocking against the mic.

...or is the AT mic a lavalier mic that you can clamp directly on to the guitar soundhole?

heheh Alan no it's a normal pencil mic........ but the advantage in my case is i have to sit and play.......

so huge plus and in the same position with my legs crossed in same way cos i have a bass drum (well i mic i tap my foot against ) under the left foot (yes i know it's the wrong foot but it's what i'm comfortable with and a tamborine under the right ....... so i seldom shift position cos it will be apparant to me cos i have only have one comfortable position to play in ........

and by tossing the guitar about i do it for effect and entrtainment value and not while i'm fretting it ....... during percussion solo's ect ........ and i literally spin it around these days over my head and flip it so i can use the back for the percusssion .......

and i have been aware of the distance i need to be from mic....... and also aware that being too close causes the proximity effect which i actually use when i do quasi bass solo's heheh nice fat bass sound and when muted sounds almost like a double bass... and with a mic this part of my act of doing the bass solo's has improved thanks to the proxsimity effect ...... much more realistic double bass sound.......

so yeah i've adapted to it.......... and i'm able to groove and move the guitar back into the same position easily thanks to the foot percussion always being in same spot so i have a point of reference for my body position all the time.......

and i do pull away when i get frantic with flamenco pieces and use the louder free strokes instead of the subtle jazz fingerstyle technique which is much softer ..... i used to have to turn up my volume on my previous guitar to play jazz when i used the internal pickup ....... now i just lean in a fraction and it's perfect and a fat round jazz sound......

i admit it's quite a mission learning the correct mic positioning and discovering the mic'ing technique for optimal performance .... but i'm getting there and slicker each show............

however i must say the tone of a totally mic'd up nylon is just worth every hint of careful mic placement and learning how to use the technique.......

also i find it now makes me concentrate a hint more on my sound and playing live....... and i feel i'm playing much better even my note choice is improving ......... as i improv everything i play except for the melodys ....... and now i'm listening more intently somore focussed

so i'm not saying it's for everyone........

and most steel strings seem to be ok with internal pickups think just nylon is another beast completely ............

and i still think for festivals i would go direct ........

but this is a tool which is now in my arsenal of skills which is proving in my case to be very beneficial....and i think my world music be it flamenco /classical/morrocan/cuban ect sounds more authentic because of it .......

oh well Alan you know me ...... always willing to get that extra bit out of the sound....... and be a hint off the beaten track ...... and this time i think it's working .

but i'll keep dropping the odd post to say how it's going..........

peace and light
K