Squonk
I went to a "London Pub Evening", a school fund raising event on Saturday night.
The band providing the entertainment was; Stewart Irving (ex Ballyhoo) and Cindy Alter (Ex Clout, remember Substitute??)
Although they did a set that was primarily aimed at corporate functions, in other words for people who are vrot or semi vrot ,expecting a good time, I couldn't believe the quality of their vocals.
They do not use backing tracks, they basically just strum, but get away with it, because the vocals and harmonies drive every song.
There are so many Local musicians who are in the limelight that dont possess a tenth of their talent!!!!!
For those of you with long memories, there was a band in the 90's who used to play at Dylan's in rockey street, Yeoville, called "the Diamond Dogs", their guitarist Greg did a number with Stewart and Cindy. It was awesome!
I even found myself singing along with "Substitute", but made sure no one was watching! ?
aubs1
Hey Squonk, yep, SA does have some awesome musicians. Was just thinking over the weekend why so few ever make it really big. Was even thinking of posting a thread on why this is, and what do the SA musicians need to do, or what is it that 'stops' them from being the next Johnny Clegg, Trevor Rabin, Jonathan Butler (who is very very big in the USA) and maybe a few others.
I also wonder why the band you mention "Clout", with a major worldwide hit, break up so soon after?
I went to a club in Cape Town couple years ago, and as we were walking in, I thought the DJ (during interval for the band) was playing, only to find that it was actually the band playing, they were so good, if you were not watching them live, you'd think it was the DJ playing recorded stuff. They were all guys from bands of yester-year......Robbie Jansen, Issy Ariefdien (one of the best guitarists I've heard in SA) Issy's son btw. was/is the leader of "Prophets Of The City".......
I think that if you play the same songs for 20-odd years, boy you have to play it good by now, question is: what next?? SA bands/musicians seem to get "stuck in a rut!!!" The question is "WHY??"
Sorry Suqonk, I know this goes a little off-topic.
AlanRatcliffe
I remember all those. ?
OT:
For me it also goes to show how having a few massive hits in your heyday doesn't mean you won't be gigging in bars and scrabbling for functions later on. Funny that - how some of the band members will move on to other successful things (Attie van Wyk from Ballyhoo for example - started and runs Big Concerts, Or Tully McCully from The McCully Workshop - who owns Spaced out Sound Studios), and others end up back on the pub circuit. Is it just luck? Or do some guys wisely use their short-lived success to finance other long-term money spinners?
Back on topic:
I know exactly what you mean by the vocal-driven thing. First time I did sound for a really competent duo (Dave Ledbetter and Tina Schouw), it was amazing - I was used to rock bands where you're constantly fiddling with levels, but after setting basic levels (Two acoustic guitars, two mics), I didn't have to touch anything. They did everything themselves with playing dynamics and an awesome level of mic control. Dave is an awesome guitarist too.
@ Aubs - don't forget Manfred Mann and the guys on the other side of the glass - Eddie Kramer, Kevin Shirley, etc. Even drummers like Anton Figg. If you think about it, there are plenty SA guys who have been successful on the international scene. Yes, there are many more who don't - but that's true everywhere.
I don't know the story behind Clout, but bands breaking up after huge success are usually due to record company financials - many bands with a big first album find they still owe the company huge amounts of money after the dust settles, and the only way to escape the contract is to dissolve the band.
racman
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
but bands breaking up after huge success are usually due to record company financials - many bands with a big first album find they still owe the company huge amounts of money after the dust settles, and the only way to escape the contract is to dissolve the band.
Is that a South African problem or is it the same internationally as well Alan?
FenderBender
I think its the same overseas, although the artists make enough cash quickly enough to settle their "debts" with the companies.
racman
the age old dilemma: "Big fish, small pond" or "Small fish, big pond" !
AlanRatcliffe
Yes, it's the same everywhere. On a standard first contract, you need to sell about 1.2 million records to break even. The company makes about $12 million from the sales of the same record.
Take a look at
http://www.mosesavalon.com/calculate.shtml
Manfred-Klose
record labels is soon going to be a thing of the past.........something well read about in history books.
Bands are starting to promote themself, by means of internet and giving their music away for free, or even making funny youtube videos te get some hits.
racman
Alan Ratcliffe wrote
Yes, it's the same everywhere. On a standard first contract, you need to sell about 1.2 million records to break even. The company makes about $12 million from the sales of the same record.
Take a look at
http://www.mosesavalon.com/calculate.shtml
I remember some years ago being offered a "deal" and being absolutely horrified at the actual amount of income per CD that went to the artist. (Of course nothing materialized from the "deal" so I'm not famous either) ?
aubs1
Well now all this depends on the record companies, how "greedy" and short-sighted they are, and what they expect from the artist.
A bit of interesting trivia, (in a nutshell..........)
I remember when Clive Calder (who was head of EMI, SA, at the time) recorded/produced Richard Jon Smith, (Candlelight, Mama, Michael Row the boat) he actually helped put him on the road, set up literally thousands of concerts around the country, had a complete road crew, advance publicity, the whole nine yards under his own separate company, I think it was called Sagittarius Promotions, (with Ralph Simon) and made a fortune for both himself and the artist to leave SA and set themselves up in the UK. Long story short, Clive then went on to start Zomba Records, which signed up and put the following artists "on the map".... Britney Spears, 'nSync, the Backstreet Boys, Billy Ocean and The Cars, and later Jonathan Butler, who he knew from back home (SA). (AFAIK, Mutt Lange was involved there as well.) A few years ago, Clive sold Zomba for $1.2 Billion to become the 334th richest man in the world, and has retired in the Caymans..... (see Forbes world Billionaires). BTW. Paul McCartney is way further down on that list!!!!
RJS then went into producing, and I think has now retired back here in SA.
The point of this story.......SA needs more Clive Calders, who can see beyond the borders of just selling 100,000 copies of records in SA to cover their costs.......
chris77
So now I know who to blame for Britney Spears, nSync and the Backstreet Boys...
aubs1
chris77 wrote
So now I know who to blame for Britney Spears, nSync and the Backstreet Boys...
Who is to blame for them making Millions and Millions of dollars, or for for some of them being stupid???? hahahahah, I would'nt mind being stupid with milions and millions of dollars in the bank, than smart, and broke!!! hahahahaha..... ?
racman
Don't blame the supplier, blame the consumer !
No market = no sale !!!
chris77
Truth be told its actually the masses who buy the stuff whose to blame for those, erm... artists, being unleashed upon the world. As long as theres a market they'll keep churning up the one next big thing after the other. Same with the sokkie hits we get bombarded with. Demand and supply, simple as that. Its actually quite cool that a Saffa is the main guy behind it, making millions out of the deal. But hell, he is defenitely gonna take a few friendly chirps if he ever comes to a braai at my house!
Bob-Dubery
Graeme Parfett wrote
I think its the same overseas, although the artists make enough cash quickly enough to settle their "debts" with the companies.
Some do. Many don't. And a lot of them don't have as much money as you think they do.
I might add that I see nothing wrong in record companies recouping their investment, though the situation that Courtney Love likened to share-cropping needs a shake up.
One of the problems with Clout and "Substitute" may have been that it wasn't their song, so composers royalties were not due to them and so a cut of the profits was going elsewhere.
aubs1
Bob Dubery wrote
I might add that I see nothing wrong in record companies recouping their investment, .............
I partly agree with you Bob, however, what the record companies are fully aware of is that they are/have marketing specialists, and the artists are/do clearly not, hence my example of Clive Calder, who did not leave his artists to their "own devices". He worked with them, promoted them, helped them make money, not just for the record company (who he represented) to recoup their investment! Which clearly paid off for him, and his artists. Why can't other record companies, especially in SA, see this clear advantage?
I'm not saying it's the record companies responsibility to do so, but surely if you had an artist with potential, why not have or get a separate promotions company to sign up the artist.
[deleted]
IMO things are changing and I'm glad they are. There's a little conspiracy theorist in me. I'm reading about the music 'revolution' of the Afrikaanse music scene in the early to late eighties. The book is called 'Voelvry' and tells of how the SA government strictly controlled the music produced and broadcasted in the country up untill then. We all know that to be true. That caused the creation of 'Shifty Records' which catered to the 'undesirable' musicians of that time.
Nowdays I'd say there is still quite a lot of crontrol in what we listen to. Something becomes popular BECAUSE it gets played a million times on the radio and TV, not the other way around, as I believe it should be. I don't think there's some evil plan behind this, it's just buisiness. Recording and promotion are more accesible to start out musicians now and we will be exposed to more diversity because of it. You might have to look in new places, but that makes it all the more exciting. And I must say, it's insane how many good musicians there are in this country.
