2x Vintage 30's and a 100watt Head?

Jaen-Pierre-Dowling · 2009-08-18T21:40:02+00:00

Hey there guys... I'm fairly new to the whole valve head vibe, but I just wanted to know what the implications of running a 100watt valve head through 2 Vin...

2x Vintage 30's and a 100watt Head?

Gearhead

A 100W valve head into a pair of >100dB/W/m speakers WILL at full tilt blow the windows out of a medium size bar, don't let anyone tell you it's cool to get deaf. The days of stack walls are over, people build attenuators into 15W valve amps. It's the age of mic'ing up and in-ears and the testosterone is saved for after the show (or by female 800m runners?).

Gearhead

Jaen-Pierre Dowling wrote: The plan is to back the pre-amp gain down to as low as possible, use a series of pedals to get the overdrive and effects settled, and then to crank the valve section to get as much as possible from the tubes.

The gain of a set of output tubes is constant, in other words for every mV of input swing they give a certain amount of sound volume. By turning up the power amp and turning down the preamp you achieve nothing as long as the output volume is the same. Inside your valve power amp there is firstly the volume pot that decimates the signal, followed by a couple of preamp tubes that pump the signal back up and 'drive' the output tubes. There is 'fokol' difference between what you suggest and playing both preamp and power amp at intermediate level. What will happen if you turn the preamp down is that your rig will pick up more interference and hum since the signal levels from preamp to pedals to power amp are small.
Apparently Kurt Cobain never really got this point and kept on turning up his preamp to the max. It only resulted in blown power amp input stages according to his tech :?

xcpointx

Gearhead wrote: A 100W valve head into a pair of >100dB/W/m speakers WILL at full tilt blow the windows out of a medium size bar, don't let anyone tell you it's cool to get deaf. The days of stack walls are over, people build attenuators into 15W valve amps. It's the age of mic'ing up and in-ears and the testosterone is saved for after the show (or by female 800m runners?).

This must explain why people prefer 1.6L japanese cars, and not V8 6Litre muscle..

NOTHING beats the feeling of a stack roaring at meltdown, and thump you in the chest when you palm mute. You don't get that with in ears ?

AlanRatcliffe

xcpointx wrote: NOTHING beats the feeling of a stack roaring at meltdown, and thump you in the chest when you palm mute.

Keep it up and feel it is all you'll be able to do... Anyway, wouldn't you rather your music sounded good to your audience?

xcpointx

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
xcpointx wrote: NOTHING beats the feeling of a stack roaring at meltdown, and thump you in the chest when you palm mute.
Keep it up and feel it is all you'll be able to do... Anyway, wouldn't you rather your music sounded good to your audience?

hahaha!! Appreciate that..
I've been playing as loud as I can since 1990 and no detectable problems yet by the otologist.

You would not want to watch Metallica(not my fave but a typical example) play through 2x12 cabs at 15W, attenuated(?? WTF)

We are MEN!!!

That said, in my time I have found a few people that are definitely more sensitive to volume than others, ie their ears are way more 'sensitive' than others. Those people don't go to rock concerts.

Gearhead

There is a difference between preferring to feel the thump / roar / meltdown / whoaaah (blows mind)... and explaining to the novel amp wannahave that he needs a stack. He does not need a stack. He needs a tube amp between 5 and 30W and should spend his other money on other gear.

xcpointx

Oh yes, I see.

If you start with a good tube head, you are a long way toward good tone, without getting too many pedals.

If you get a low powered head you may find yourself wanting a bigger one later on = more $$$.

Depends where you want to play too. At home, in a residential area.. 5W amp I'd agree. But the price you pay for those boutique amps are close to more popular 100W heads anyway ☹

If you have a rehearsal room somewhere, in a band with a loud drummer, get something bigger.

AlanRatcliffe

xcpointx wrote: You would not want to watch Metallica(not my fave but a typical example) play through 2x12 cabs at 15W, attenuated(?? WTF)

You're right, I would not want to watch Metallica. ? For many, many, many reasons.

I don't know about Metallica, but with many of the rock acts with big backline "walls" these days, you'd be surprised at just how many amps and cabs on stage are dummies with nothing more than a pilot light inside, while only one amp is plugged in and used (sometimes not even on stage, but miked up backstage) - ZZ Top, AC/DC, et. al. The few guys with two or more amps are more likely to be switching between them for different tones than chaining them together 60's and 70's style. Just like the drummers are using triggers and sampled sounds...

Rush take it one step further and poke fun at the dummy amp situation - their wall of amps have been replaced by a wall of household appliances while Lee and Lifeson use PODs. ?

Coming back to your car analogy:

This must explain why people prefer 1.6L japanese cars, and not V8 6Litre muscle..

Exactly... for most people a 1.3L has more than enough performance for the daily work - back and shopping on Saturday thing, plus they are much more practical - easier to park and cheaper to drive. It's a case of horses for courses. And if the truth be known, the modern 1.6s far outperform the 3L and 6L behemoths of yesteryear. Even Formula 1 cars only use 2.4L engines these days, and have never used larger than 3L engines anyway (or 1.5 Turbo, when they were allowed).

Gearhead

I have a real cool Metallica CD - Symphony and Metallica. Admittedly only cool when played at full blast - on my 2x10W valve Hifi ?

... but this still is offtopic....

xcpointx

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I don't know about Metallica, but with many of the rock acts with big backline "walls" these days, you'd be surprised at just how many amps and cabs on stage are dummies with nothing more than a pilot light inside, while only one amp is plugged in and used (sometimes not even on stage, but miked up backstage) - ZZ Top, AC/DC, et. al. The few guys with two or more amps are more likely to be switching between them for different tones than chaining them together 60's and 70's style. Just like the drummers are using triggers and sampled sounds...

I've been to a few of those shows. As I lay Dying use a wall of Mesa cabs that actually have NO speakers in them.
Working backstage at the Fall Outboy concert at the dome, their guitar rigs were setup off stage and miked up (very nicely), where the guitar tech looked after them. On stage they had a dummy amp :O
The only thing playing live on stage was drums and bass.

Buts thats pop.

Danny-B

Muse also use that kind of setup on stage - crazy looking amps with needles and thousands of knobs and buttons.

http://www.musewiki.org/FineLine_Stage_Enhancing_Unit

Manfred-Klose

Muse also use that kind of setup on stage - crazy looking amps with needles and thousands of knobs and buttons.

http://www.musewiki.org/FineLine_Stage_Enhancing_Unit

interresting effects he is using on his gear list.