New Guitar Rig XE and Session

AlanRatcliffe · 2008-05-09T10:40:51+00:00

I've had a few discussions about Guitar Rig around these parts, both on forum and PM'd. I know a few of you have mentioned you like the concept, but the full...

New Guitar Rig XE and Session

AlanRatcliffe

Ah, a subtle hint. I did nearly miss your post.

Are you recording on the laptop too? If so either will work. If you're using your laptop as "amp" and recording on another machine (as I do), you'd have to use a DI to split off the signal to your recording machine if you want to record the dry signal. I just take the digital out from my laptop's soundcard (Edirol UA-25) into the digital in on my recording machine - so it's like recording a preprocessed guitar. I find doing it this way forces me to get a good idea of what I want before I record and stops me from spending years tweaking the guitar sound.

As I said in another post recently, If I were to do it all again, I'd go for the whole kit and caboodle - with Rig Kontrol. Phone around and see who'll give you the best price, anyone can get it from the distributor. Ideally someone local so you have some kind of local backup support too. I think the NI store just refers you to Tuerk locally.

Mr-M

Renesongs wrote: I've been checking the specs on GR3 Session and the GR3 Kontroller and it would appear that both seem to be able to do the job. My preference is for the Kontroller even though it's twice the price. Why? I don't want to have to lug extra foot peddles about as well.

Do you have the software version of GR3? I have the GR2 Software Edition as part of Komplete 3 and I went on a quest a while back to buy the Rig Kontrol 2 (or should I say to find out about the Rig Kontrol 'cos I didn't really have the bucks and still can't justify buying one). The guy at Turnkey checked with Tuerk about it and apparently you have to buy it online directly from NI. Something to do with only NI being able to verify you are a registered GR user which is why they can't get it. Don't know if it still works this way and honestly I just left it at that because I didn't have and still can't justify the bucks for one. I can see the anti-piracy logic in them doing it that way though.

Otherwise like Alan says, just buy the whole caboodle GR3 Rig Kontrol Edition.

Riaan

The learning curve for me on this forum is awesome...

the lack of the "Split" module makes it useless for me (I need to process piezos and magnetic pickups simultaneously).

Alan: (stupid question no. ## from me) does this mean that if you feed the magnetic pickups and the piezo's into two different inputs into GR3 Session USB interface (either both DI or one as a miked amp), both signals will be processed by only one amp model and/or set of effects? In other words, your acoustic sound will actually end up totally obscured? Reason I'm asking is because of my Godin Solidac. So if I understand this correctly, one will need a totally different set of hardware and/or software to simultaneously process the piezo signal? Or record two seperate tracks.
Would the GR3 be useful for acoustic guitar amp modelling?

Renesongs

@ Alan - thanks for clearing that up - I think I will probably go for the whole damn nine yards (GR3 + Kontroller). Anyone want to buy a Boss GT6, good previous owner was an elderly woman who used it at church on sundays ?

@ Mr M
Guitar Rig 3 (software) + Rig Kontroller 3 = $559.00 or
Guitar Rig 3 (software) = $339.00 + Rig Kontroller 3 = $289.00 or
Guitar Rig 3 xe (software) + Session I/O = $249.00 or
Guitar Rig 3 xe (software) = $119.00

AlanRatcliffe

Riaan wrote: does this mean that if you feed the magnetic pickups and the piezo's into two different inputs into GR3 Session USB interface (either both DI or one as a miked amp), both signals will be processed by only one amp model and/or set of effects?

That's right. The split module is what lets you split the left and right inputs (as well as split a mono signal for parallel FX). The full version of GR3 has the split module, so you can process piezos and magnetics separately. The full version also comes with a DI box emulation in the speaker module, which comes in handy for piezos. I'm getting some great piezo tones from this setup. I usually do a frequency split and apply some modulation on all frequencies above (IIRC) about 4KHz. This adds some of the vibe of chorus, thickening up and adding some movement to the high frequencies without screwing with the tuning in the lower frequencies (the reason why I usually hate chorus).

What you could do is ask N.I. about The session version, with a software upgrade to the full version of GR3. I know they do a software only version and they do cheap software upgrades for owners of V2.

So if I understand this correctly, one will need a totally different set of hardware and/or software to simultaneously process the piezo signal? Or record two seperate tracks.

No problem with the hardware, but it's down to how the software handles two inputs. Actually, now you mention it, if you are recording, you should be able to use two tracks, one for each input, then you insert a copy of GR3 xe in each to process the two inputs separately.

Riaan

I suppose the full version of GR3 will integrate well with most audio/MIDI interfaces and Sonar? I will at some time in future, when Tito Mboweni stops plotting against me, upgrade my Roland UA-30 interface to something with more I/O and Firewire: two inputs for my Godin, maybe an extra one or two for acoustic and bass, MIDI connectivity for a MIDI keyboard and output to monitors and headphones. And the newest version of Sonar. One doesn't really need the N-I hardware?

Mr-M

Riaan wrote: I suppose the full version of GR3 will integrate well with most audio/MIDI interfaces and Sonar?
One doesn't really need the N-I hardware?

It will work perfectly. I use a 10-in Presonus Firepod with my GR2.
I've used GR2 in Cubase with 2 guitars & a bass running at the same time, albeit in seperate tracks & GR instances.
I have used the splitter in GR2's standalone mode with 2 guitars into seperate amp models a few times with no issues either.

AlanRatcliffe

I don't use the NI hardware and it works perfectly. Just make sure your interface has HiZ inputs (at least one).

I don't usually use GR as a plugin in Sonar as I would often have to run many copies, and even the best computers struggle when playing back 24+ tracks (most stereo), 6 - 12 copies of GR3 a few reverbs and a couple of compressors.

Renesongs

Alan +1

I don't use any GR3 hardware (yet) - The softwaret works perfectly well as a plug-in to any DAW I was using it in Sonar 6 but after adding a virtual sound module (cakewalk TTS) I was experiencing drop out - Using Reaper I have so far used Cakewalk TTS + Edirol Super Quartet + 3 x Guitar Rig 3 and have experiencing no drop-out without having to freeze or render anything (I am starting to sound like a stuck record with this Reaper thing - please tell me to shut up.)

AlanRatcliffe

please tell me to shut up

Not at all. You've got to use whatever works best for you (for whatever reason). That's why I use Sonar, rather than Pro Tools.

Renesongs

I finally sold enough gear to afford shares in Native instruments ie I bought Guitar Rig 3 Kontroller edition which set me back cough R6k. So far I'm pretty chuffed with it (like a dog with 2 tails). When you use the Kontroller sound card interface up at 96kHz, IMHO the sound and amp emulation quality kicks the crap out of the Boss GT 6/8/10 pedals
The big bonus for me is that the Kontroller with Laptop is far more compact and portable than my old GT-6 I'd feel quite happy to hall this off to a gig together with a powered speaker and music stand.

I will probably be very scarce on this forum for the next couple of days while I figure out all the things this baby can do. My family have hidden my screwdrivers away because, like most good guitarist, I have an insatiable habit of pulling things apart to see how they work. I stripped my Roland RD 600 piano down to it's skeleton after if was only a few weeks old under the guise of checking for dust. - I'll have buy another set of screwdrivers I suppose ?

AlanRatcliffe

Good one Rene!

Amazing when you think of what we had to carry to a gig in the '80s, isn't it? And I'm still finding ways to do things that aren't possible with hardware and constantly tweaking to improve the tones to better suit my tastes.

Renesongs

Amazing when you think of what we had to carry to a gig in the '80s

Amen to that brother - I think most of traded in out tube amps for solid state not for sound reasons but to avoid permanently damaging our skeletal structures.

Anyway after 2 days of reading and tweaking Rig Kontroller 3 and about 6 months of playing with Guitar Rig 3 (I have had a pirated version until now), I am Now ready to field any questions you guys have on GR3. I know Alan has an endorsement but I think he mentioned that he didn't have the whole deal - The Kontroller 3 makes a big difference, It can turn a 1.6ghz laptop into a powerful portable studio or stage amp (just add a powered speaker). You can record DI, processed signal, or both (if you know what you doing) ?

Guy-Onraet

Sounds like you're having a great time Rene. ok:

Tones - are they convincing in terms of modelling the "real thing"?
- are they more/less tweekable than the "real thing"? (can you go way overboard like taking an AC30 into hi-gain?)
- what is your favourite set-up using GR?

What are the dynamics like in terms of sensitivity to attack, compression when driven hard, ect?

What powered speakers would you use/recommend with GR?

Renesongs

Tones - are they convincing in terms of modelling the "real thing"?

The modelling is very convincing right down to the signature hiss of the various makes. As for tweakable, eg VOX AC30 (1 of the 10 amps modelled), you can tweak the regular front panel, Normal, Brilliant, Bass, Treble, Tone Cut, Tremolo Speed, and Depth. You can also tweak the the tubes at the back of the amp, power supply, variac, sag, response and bias. On the speaker side you can adjust mike type and placement to find the sweet spot or build your own wall of speakers. Conclusion I would never have the money know-how or time to build what can be modelled.

can you go way overboard like taking an AC30 into hi-gain?

"The amps that go up to 11 are much better than ones that go up to 10" - This is Spinal Tap
Well you can drop in a gain booster before the amp to go to 11 and beyond. You can also do the Brian May and chain 3 AC30 together 1 parallel and 1 series and build a wall 4 x 12" cabs.

what is your favourite set-up using GR

I'm kind of spoiled for choice here, depends what I'm playing - E.g. For my blues I like to use a Fender Tweed, mic the cab at about 5cm and and add a small amount of quad delay, some times kick in the a cry baby.

What are the dynamics like in terms of sensitivity to attack, compression when driven hard, ect?

Besides being able to adjust the amps dynamics at the back there is also a whole bunch of compressors, filters and
equalizers that you can drop in to get the desired response. What you don't have to do is wait 30 min for your valves to warm up though ?

What powered speakers would you use/recommend with GR?

As big and as dynamic as you can afford. One thing I have learned in the amp sims business is two speakers are better than one since a lot of the dynamics and effects are stereo. I use a compact PA, Yamaha Stagepass @ 250 watts a channel for practices I usually will take only the one speaker with the mixer stashed in the back

AlanRatcliffe

+1 on everything Rene said. Good post Rene.