Getting on-stage sound softer

CDee · 2009-08-05T13:00:17+00:00

So, I've been battling together with the other band members and the sound guy to get the "on-stage" sound softer. The on-stage sound is so loud that we can hear it loud and clear everywhere in the auditorium. This sounds horrible because it's not the mix we want the people to hear. >☹ I think I might have found the issue is that the drums are loud and thus we need to boost the monitors to hear ourselves. But our drummer is not a loud player, he plays actually very softly (strange I know ?). The fact is that the drums are in the middle of the stage and there are no drum screens or anything. Will adding a drum screen in front of the drums help with quieting down the sound? What other things can we try to tone it down on stage? Thanks, CDee

Neps

Alan Ratcliffe wrote What about in-ear monitoring? Frees up the need for monitor wedges completely and if someone is overplaying, you mix them louder in their feed and bring the other instruments down, forcing them to back off a little (works in studio cans, but I have no real world experience with live in-ear stuff).

In-ears are awesome. But I've come across a few guys who hate them. They tend to say they can't 'feel' the music. So, the only way to counter that is to have a few wedges on stage. I like to drum with my cans or in-ears, cause then I can send my metronome them. In-ears has one problem though. You tend to start off with them too loud in your ears, and that can cause hearing damage. And most gigging muso's in SA want EVERYTHING in their monitor mixes. This is also where the problem lies. I've mixed and played with some bands where the drummer only wants the lead vocal in his monitor, plus a little bit of guitar. I generally play without anything in my monitors apart from the click and a bit of bass. Reason being 'we rehearsed the stuff, I do the count in's, I play on a click, so I know where I'm going, the band has to just follow the rythem.'

AlanRatcliffe

A bit OT:

@ Neps. On cymbals, do you mix brands for different sounds? I used to mix mostly between Zildjian Ks and Paiste Sigs. I found the darker Ks fitted into the music without being intrusive, while the Paistes used to ride over the top of it without having to be too loud. I also find most of the newer style cymbals are bland, more focussed, loud and punchy (I blame Sabian for starting that trend). They cut through and are less prone to breakage, but have no character.

CDee

In ears.... I'll have a look at that as well... Thanks ?

mattayou

We use electronic drums in our band and they really work well. Especially because if you have a small indoor gig you can lower the sound completely. Also you don't drive the neighbours nuts with practise sessions or late night jams!

Neps

I tend to stay with one brand around my kit.. Except for my ride. I use the Zildjian Custom A's and Avidas series. The K's are a bit too dark for my taste. I like snappy sounds and clear 'crashes.' My ride is the only cymbal thats not Zildjian. I picked up a 22" Istanbul dry-ride for R800, and it's awesome!! I love that BIG bell, and it doesn't go out-of-control when I really bang it. I know a few guys who have different types around their kits. Mainly because they picked them up on the cheap, and if you can get a Zildjian K 16" for R400 you TAKE it.

But I prefer to have cymbals from the same brand and the same series ( It' just looks neater :-[ )
But for rockier stuff, I'll probably use K's. I don't like Sabian that much. Had a few, got rid of them. Paiste I only used the 802's and Signature series, they were O.K. The Sig. series was cool, almost as nice as my A's, but they got dull for some weird reason :-\ .

The K's sound awesome if used in the right style of music. But when I drummed for money I stayed with brighter cymbals. It just gave me a wider palate to use, cause I played anything from jazz trios, to blues, to some metal to a bit of alternative rock.

AlanRatcliffe

I picked up a 22" Istanbul dry-ride for R800, and it's awesome!!

I had a wonderful little Istanbul 12" splash. It buckled within the first week and sounded almost like a mini china, real trashy. My 8" Zildjian was completely different, almost chiming in comparison. I also like the tight sounding rides with well defined stick sound and less wash and the bell sound is what makes or breaks it for me (not quite the Z Megabell ride though ?). Can't remember the model, but my ride was a 20" Paiste made from a B8 brass compound.

Problem with the cheap second-hand Zildjians is they tend to be those old 22" or 24" rides that ring forever. Or have rivets in ?

Neps

Alan Ratcliffe wrote Or have rivets in ?

I love rivets..haha! I demolished a brand new 20" Acustom by drilling holes for some rivets. It was my 'i-have-no-idea-but-it-looks-cool' sound ?

AlanRatcliffe

Ouch! Next time use the bath plug chain trick (hanging from the stand nut across the cymbal).

deanBailey

I always found Zildjian Z's to be too loud and over powering.

The K's are nice and dry sounding but can get a little dark.

I absolutely hate washy rides. I prefer Zildjian Mega bell ride or Sabian AAX metal ride. Yes it says metal but it's got more "ping" than "qwssshhhhhh" when you hit it so you can hear the stick articulation and the wash doesn't over power anything.

I've found that the level of the stage is determined by the Cymbals (hats included) and Snare. Those normally get hit the most and the loudest and unfortunately do not have a volume knob, so everything else around that piece of gear would turn up. Guitars, bass, vocals, then monitors.

Just don't turn the other instruments up waay too loud otherwise the drummer will feel like he needs to hit the cymbals louder.

A good trick I do in studio is when the drummer hits the hats too loud, I blast them in his headphones so that he's forced to calm down on them.

I agree with Neps on the "musicians seem to want everything in their mix". You only really need to hear from the monitors what you can't hear from where you are, like the musician on the other side of the stage.

Venue stages around SA are averagely small so for me I always send in the tech rider with a good starting area with monitor mixes.

4 monitors minimum:

Drum monitor:
Guitar L 25%, Guitar R 25%, Vocals 20% (for vocal Ques so the drummer doesn't annoy you asking what song is next), Kick 30%. No bass because the amp often sits right beside his riser (if he/she has one)
Monitor Left:
Guitar R50% (depending on what ques the musician more), Vocals 10%, Kick 10%, Snare 10%, bass 10%
Monitor Right:
The same thing.
Monitor Center:
Vocals 60% (or 80% depending on how small the stage is) Then kick/snare 20%, guitar L 10%, guitar R 10%.

A bigger stage will have something different though.
If you map this out for your engineer then there'll be less setup hassles and trial and error because you as the musician know what you'd need more than he would.

That's my opinion at least, you're welcome to do your own thing. ?

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