Understanding the Guitar Fretboard and Playing by Ear

Attila

Arjun Menon wrote: +1 with Attila

Jack Flash Jr wrote: Eg. if the tonal centre of the chord progression is A major, what minor pentatonics fit for soloing?
In the key of A major, your minor sounds come from B Dorian (the pentatonic would be the 1, b3, 4, 5 & b7 i.e. B,D,E,F# & A), C# phrygian, F# Aeolian and G# locrian (as long as you don't play the b5).
To highlight a minor pentatonic sound, as long as you can emphasise a minor interval (i.e. distance from 1 to b3), followed by a major interval (i.e. distance from b3 to 5) and then a minor interval ( i.e. distance from 5 to b7), you should be fine.
In the case of the locrian, however, you could play the 1,b3,4, b6 & b7. The two minor intervals in there should sound interesting.

Yaaaa Wot he said !!! on the button old boy

guitarboy2828

Hmm, I hear what everyone is saying, but wasn't he asking a question which requires a lot more of a simple answer?

If you're playing in the key of A major, you'll play the relative minor pentatonic, which would be F#m..

Or did i miss the boat somewhere along in these HUGE posts?

Keira-WitherKay

mmmmmmm hehehehhe guys i don't wanna slate anything said here cos it's all fabulous ...it's just the title..... ........... but this is basic music theory 101 ...... and NOT playing by ear....... as i understand it ......... so yeah maybe just change the title ...

i checked this out cos i wanted to see how someone who never applied music theory would actually approach playing ... something i was always amazed at.... i have known one guy who was a pro and never knew the chord names........ hhehheeh but he'd just jam along and sound great ........ good ears i think and i must admit i don't know how people manage to play without the basic theory.............

as for your question posted re playing penta's in key of A ............

yes in most cases one would play the minor pentatonic in the relative minor.......... but you never mentioned of course except for blues which in many instances or rather most will be the minor pentatonic with the added note (b5) (the blue note as it's often refered to) to now make it the 6 note blues scale but one plays it outa the key not the relative minor ... so one would play a minor pentatonic or blues scale in A over a major A chord that minor scale sound over the major chord sequence ...and major bass line( the bassist plays a major 3rd in the bass lines while you as a guitarist play a minor 3rd in your solo).....is what is giving it that blues sound.......

also for interest sake you know of course you can take a standard penta and turn it into a country scale by including the minor 3rd as well as the major 3rd .........

have fun ....... this little bit of knowledge can lead to a wealth of playing

peace and light
keira

Attila

guitarboy2828 wrote: Hmm, I hear what everyone is saying, but wasn't he asking a question which requires a lot more of a simple answer?

If you're playing in the key of A major, you'll play the relative minor pentatonic, which would be F#m..

Or did i miss the boat somewhere along in these HUGE posts?

yep just a bit .... he is looking at a method to hopping to ......

Jack-Flash-Jr

Thanks all... actually guitarboy2828 was right BUT that said, Attila, Arjun and Keira leading me down a lovely path back into the theory jungle - I actually started with classical but a couple of years in the grunge era started and those bastards made me lose my track ? plus I'm lazy, should have remembered Circle of Fifths. Related to Attila's answer is this which I was doing instinctively anyway:
http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/Lessons/Lesson-Of-The-Day/Chromatic-Blues-Runs-827/

Gareth

Hey Attila - Thanks SO much for the solfa lesson, I see it being REALLY useful.

Attila

Gareth wrote: Hey Attila - Thanks SO much for the solfa lesson, I see it being REALLY useful.

Great to hear Gareth - ?

I dont really agree with Kiera's comment about the title - if you remember the advert where the monkey takes the okes cider and he asks if Barry Hilton knew the monkey took his drink and he replies: No ! but if you can hum it .... I can play it .... and it is just so and then you can apply that to the glockenspiel or the triangle ....if you wanted ..... in my humble opinion of course.

mcmurray

Guys,

I'm the one that wrote that article on solfege. If you have any questions whatsoever regarding using/learning solfege, please ask and I'll do my best to help you!

Also cheers for recognizing this as useful information. A forum in SA is the last place I would have thought my work would show up!

I have more to add to this also. Solfege can be used as a tool for sight reading and playing from standard notation, and in the same way, for transcribing directly to standard notation.

Please ignore the part describing modes, the way I described it there won't do your ears many favors, I've noticed.

When I get some free time I'll write up this information.

PeteM

Hey Mcmurray - welcome to the forum. Thanks for your article it has provided me with much thought and insight and certainly sparked positive discussion in this thread. 8)

arjunmenon

Really nice article Mcmurray.
Gave me more than a few things to think about and kinda made me look at it from another perspective.

Cheers

Attila

mcmurray

I just notices that this article was read 2355 times, nice one Mr. mc and so good of you to drop by and I hope you will add your perls of wisdom from time to time

:woohoo:

mcmurray

Attila wrote: Major Scale ( ionian mode);
do > re > mi > fa > so > la > ti > do

Dorian Mode (eg for F# Dorian, the re's fall on F#);
re > mi > fa > so > la > ti > do > re

Phrygian Mode;
mi > fa > so > la > ti > do > re > mi

Lydian Mode;
fa > so > la > ti > do > re > mi > fa

Mixolydian Mode;
so > la > ti > do > re > me > fa > so

Natural Minor Scale ( Aeolian mode );
la > ti > do > re > mi > fa > so > la

Locrian Mode;
ti > do > re > mi > fa > so > la > ti

This is the part I wrote that I take issue with. Whilst technically correct, I've come to the conclusion that we don't hear modes relative to a major key, rather we hear them as small variations of the major and minor tonalities.

Modes can be divided into Major sounding modes, and Minor sounding modes.

Here's the major sounding modes;
Ionian (the major scale)
Lydian
Mixolydian

Here's the minor sounding modes;
Dorian
Phrygian
Aeolian (the natural minor scale)
Locrian

We know that the solfege syllables for Major is: do re mi fa so la ti

So to derive the major sounding modes, we treat 'do' as the tonic for each of them.

Lydian becomes: do re mi fi so la ti do- i.e. we raise the fourth degree of the major scale by one semitone. This is what gives the mode it's distinct sound.
Mixolydian becomes: do re mi fa so la te do- i.e. we lower the seventh degree of the major scale by one semitone.

We also know that the solfege syllables for Minor is: la ti do re mi fa so

So to derive the minor sounding modes, we treat 'la' as the tonic for each of them.

Dorian becomes: la ti do re mi fi so la- i.e. we raise the sixth degree of the natural minor scale by one semitone.
Phrygian becomes: la te do re mi fa so la- i.e. we lower the second degree of the natural minor scale by one semitone.
Locrian becomes: la te do re me fa so la- i.e. we lower the second and fifth degree of the natural minor scale by one semitone.

Finally, the reason that modes/scales sound major or minor is due to the 3rd degree of the scale. If the 3rd is a major 3rd, it sounds major, or happy. If the 3rd is a minor 3rd, it will sound minor, or sad. Don't ask me why this is so, I don't know. It's just the way it is ?

[deleted]

Thanks mcmurray, these modal solfege's will make it a lot more simple to practice modes aurally.

Grant

There's a little known method that is actually very simple. Its also actually a great test to see if someone really "knows" their fretboard:

Practice playing scales on 1 string. Sounds easy, but is quite tricky. And know ALL the keys, don't skip Gb.

I used to sequence up repeating progressions moving in the circle of 5ths. Stay on each chord for about 4 bars or so and then change key while trying
to keep moving up and down between open string( if that note is in the key of the moment and 12th fret). Do this on every string.

What you find out is this: You cant really learn a "pattern" for each scale on a single string. So you are forced to know the notes of the scale as well as their position and recall
them instantly. If you then combine that with normal patterns that are taught, you'll find that your understanding of the fretboard is greatly improved. And it gets you
out of "pattern playing", you know, box shape at 12 fret in Eminor for the whole solo ?

Teaches you to think "horizontally" and "vertically".

beardedmoose

Grant wrote: There's a little known method that is actually very simple. Its also actually a great test to see if someone really "knows" their fretboard:

Practice playing scales on 1 string. Sounds easy, but is quite tricky. And know ALL the keys, don't skip Gb.

I used to sequence up repeating progressions moving in the circle of 5ths. Stay on each chord for about 4 bars or so and then change key while trying
to keep moving up and down between open string( if that note is in the key of the moment and 12th fret). Do this on every string.

What you find out is this: You cant really learn a "pattern" for each scale on a single string. So you are forced to know the notes of the scale as well as their position and recall
them instantly. If you then combine that with normal patterns that are taught, you'll find that your understanding of the fretboard is greatly improved. And it gets you
out of "pattern playing", you know, box shape at 12 fret in Eminor for the whole solo ?

Teaches you to think "horizontally" and "vertically".

This is actually quite the concept Grant. Shot for mentioning it.

briang-telkomsa-net

Grant wrote: There's a little known method that is actually very simple. Its also actually a great test to see if someone really "knows" their fretboard:

Practice playing scales on 1 string. Sounds easy, but is quite tricky. And know ALL the keys, don't skip Gb.

So this is the second thing that I have seen this morning that is "super cool" - gets one thinking "out the box" as it were ?