Figuring out time signatures...

doc-phil

I often have the problem when tabbing a riff or song of not being able to figure out what time signature it is in...

Most of the things I come up with fit neatly into a standard 4/4 beat, but often when I'm doing more accoustic stuff I just can't figure it out (sometimes I manage to fit things into 3/4 but its usually through trial and error). I tab my songs in guitar pro and its so infuriating not being able to fit in my riffs into neat patterns because if I can't figure out what time signature I'm in I can't lay down any beats or backing tracks for the particular song I'm working on.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I can improve my recognition of time signatures?? Does it just come with experience or are there particular methods of recognising time signatures?

Bob-Dubery

doc-phil wrote I often have the problem when tabbing a riff or song of not being able to figure out what time signature it is in...

Most of the things I come up with fit neatly into a standard 4/4 beat, but often when I'm doing more accoustic stuff I just can't figure it out (sometimes I manage to fit things into 3/4 but its usually through trial and error). I tab my songs in guitar pro and its so infuriating not being able to fit in my riffs into neat patterns because if I can't figure out what time signature I'm in I can't lay down any beats or backing tracks for the particular song I'm working on.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I can improve my recognition of time signatures?? Does it just come with experience or are there particular methods of recognising time signatures?

Counting?

Seriously... you can usually count the beat in a tune. Anything in 3/4 is in waltz time and you should be able to count it 1 - 2 - 3 in your head. I sometimes play something and don't worry about wether it's 4/4 or 3/4, but a quick mental count will reveal the time signature - if I need to know it.

What throws me is all these cajun and bluegrass things that are mostly in 4/4 but have a 2/4 bar every now and then. I know the trick now, but I still have to count through the tune or passage thereof to find the 2/4 bar.

doc-phil

Counting is fine for 4/4 3/4. But then I get confused with anything else, some tabs I look at have one bar of 4/4, then the next bar is 5/6 or 7/8 or something similar.. Maybe the tabs I've downloaded are poorly transcribed but it just gets complicated. And I struggle to count in my head while playing ? I'l stick to my trusty metronome

AlanRatcliffe

Counting is easier if you figure out where the "ones" are first - usually at the beginning of a phrase. Then count the pulses between the ones.

Otherwise, it's just practice - like anything else - until you get used to the odd time signatures.

Bob-Dubery

doc-phil wrote Counting is fine for 4/4 3/4. But then I get confused with anything else, some tabs I look at have one bar of 4/4, then the next bar is 5/6 or 7/8 or something similar.. Maybe the tabs I've downloaded are poorly transcribed but it just gets complicated. And I struggle to count in my head while playing ? I'l stick to my trusty metronome

It's one of those things that gets easier the more you do it. And more automatic.

However my skills do not extend to 5s and 7s - and I don't often run across those kind of signatures.

Neps

I have no way of actually explaining how to count the different time sigs. Over the years I just listen and follow it automatically. But it can just be that because drums are my 1st instrument.

But typing in the time sig into a metronome and listening to where it puts the '1' will help a lot. As Alan said.. Find '1' and you're A for Away..

Riaan

If you have software like Sonar etc. it helps to play around with different time signatures, and listen to the built in metronome/click track as it accentuates the first or last beat. It helped me to finally get to grips with compound time signatures - the penny dropped when I saw the notation and heard the metronome. Up to then no amount of explaining by musically educated friends helped... :-[

Renesongs

The vast majority of rhythms are 4/4. My rule of thumb is that unless I have evidence to the contrary, assume the signature to be 4/4. I use to spend a lot of time mapping out my guitar rhythms and I often confused 6/8 with 4/4 because there were 6 strums between chords viz. 1 2 & 3 & 4 where & 3 & 4 are quicker beats therefore making 4 quarter note counts. Those tabs that change time signature all over the place are often a noob's attempt at tempo changes there are very few Rock songs that change time signature and many that change tempo . A good example is Stairway to heaven, it is ALL 4/4 but most tabbers throw a whole bunch of signature changes to account for tempo changes ?

doc-phil

O ok cool. Thanks for the guidance. I'l keep listening to my metronome and try to just pick it up with practice ? i think half my problem with tabbing my own stuff is not knowing whether some notes are supposed to be dotted notes or n-tuplets etc etc (dunno if that's the right name - that's what they call em on GP).

Carmen

Renesongs wrote The vast majority of rhythms are 4/4. My rule of thumb is that unless I have evidence to the contrary, assume the signature to be 4/4. I use to spend a lot of time mapping out my guitar rhythms and I often confused 6/8 with 4/4 because there were 6 strums between chords viz. 1 2 & 3 & 4 where & 3 & 4 are quicker beats therefore making 4 quarter note counts. Those tabs that change time signature all over the place are often a noob's attempt at tempo changes there are very few Rock songs that change time signature and many that change tempo . A good example is Stairway to heaven, it is ALL 4/4 but most tabbers throw a whole bunch of signature changes to account for tempo changes ?

I'll remember in the future that '& 3 & 4' are quicker beats. Thanks! 8)

Frans-B--Cocq

I had this problem a few years back... I had this riff I couldn't tab. It turned out to be 7/4. I'm glad it did, for it made me study time signatures, so now I'm familiar with the reasonable ones (more or less). My particular favorites are 5/4, 7/4, 11/8 and 13/8. ?

Tip for doc-phil: if you can't figure it out, try converting the /4 to /8. For example, 4/4 would be 8/8. It helped me with my awkward "6,5/4" that became 13/8. It's worth to try.

arjunmenon

+ 1 with Alan and Neps. Another tool that i use and find very helpful is breaking down odd time signatures.
Since you're comfortable with 4/4, you could try and equate/break-up the odd time signature to that format.
E.g 7/8 = 3/4 + 4/4 ; 9/11 = 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/3

However, when it comes down to the more common signatures that are difficult to break down, the counting system works best.
E.g 5/4 = 5 notes over 4 beats...or you could look at it as 3/2 (3 notes over 2 beats) + 2/2 (2 notes over 2 beats)

This, i think, would look something like the below:

Notes: 1 2 3 4 5|1 2 3 4 5
Time: 1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 ....etc.

And this gives the off-beat / playing behind the beat effect. Hope i made sense.

doc-phil

Frans B. Cocq wrote Tip for doc-phil: if you can't figure it out, try converting the /4 to /8. For example, 4/4 would be 8/8. It helped me with my awkward "6,5/4" that became 13/8. It's worth to try.

That is a good tip, I'll give it a go next time I come up against in wall while trying to tab something. ?

Arjun Menon wrote This, i think, would look something like the below:

Notes: 1 2 3 4 5|1 2 3 4 5
Time: 1 2 3 4 | 1 2 3 4 ....etc.

And this gives the off-beat / playing behind the beat effect. Hope i made sense.

It makes sense, but it seems it'll be quite hard for me to get used to it. but I shall try ?

[deleted]

At school we were always expected to find the time signature through conducting. It does give you a physical sense of timing and the the "upbeat" is literally an upward swing and the first beat is strong and downwards. To learn it takes about the same amount of time any other method would take you and you look like a spastic when you're learning, but it's always an option.