Poor production quality

Spyke

There's a nice banter going on at another forum and they're diving into the over compression of modern recordings and productions. Along with this they've listed this link: http://www.turnmeup.org/

Going through it now, but seems like something our prods here would find interesting.

Couple of quotes that sparked my interest:

I love NS-10's.

I was technically incorrect earlier. Production is and always will be an art. The problem comes in with the final mix, where the compressors get turned waaaay up to get the maximum possible SPL out of the CD, thereby undoing much of the carefully constructed production threaded together by the producer.

Have a listen to the latest Lilly Allen disc as an example - it's simply horrid. Were the levels left at decent levels without all the massive compression applied, so that the instruments' dynamics where allowed to to be heard, it would have been an excellent production.

I agree with the over compression. SA producers are brilliant at cocking shit up by doing that. You hear a brilliant intro, rich and clear, full of overtones and harmonics....then the chorus comes in and SHHHHO000ooo.... Its all squashed down into one mushy mess. Grrr I hate it.

Ive fiddled with mastering myself and it isnt that hard to avoid that over compressed sound so I dunno why these okes get it wrong so often.

My pet peeve is South African Vocal recording. They record One line of lead vocals and call it a day. 90% of international acts will have something lik 5 vocal layers just on the main lead vocal.

Have a listen to Metallica's Death Magnetic album. It's so badly compressed, it's just noise. I can't listen to it.

How they managed to go from a brilliantly recorded/produced/mastered album like the Black album, to this abomination, only they will know.

That's coz black is a wildly Atypical Metallica album. Bob Rock worked wonders on that album but they nearly split up making it. They'd be happy with a take and he'd tell them "That was shit, go fucking practice."

Thats how a Producer should be. I just put "Death Magnetic Producer" into google and the first hit says "Metallica attribute the more pure sound on Death Magnetic to the hands-off style of their new producer, Rick Rubin."

Hands off is the last thing a producer should be FFS. Otherwise why the hell are you paying him????

It's not always the production. Garbage in, garbage out... I did a session once where the sound engineer screwed everything up so badly it literally couldn't be mixed. The kick drum was peaking the whole time, it ended up sounding like a cardboard box.

Given me a few things to listen to and listen for in them.

Neps

what forum? would like to follow this!

Spyke

It's a conversation that cropped up in a thread, not a dedicated thread though.

starts here on pg2 http://www.carforums.co.za/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4780&start=25

AlanRatcliffe

It's a topic that's been around quite a while. Ironically, as the CD started giving us a greater dynamic range, the record companies started squashing everything into the last few dBs of headroom to make the album stand out on the CD changer. Yet another symptom of the modern "music as product" disease.

I often feel for the engineers who in many cases are putting together great, dynamic albums, only to have them squashed into shit at the mastering stage.

Spyke

I do recall a similar topic like this a while ago. Couldn't recall if a link that that was posted or not. Good to see that there are a few willing to fight for the cause.

In the car audio Sound Quality arena, older tracks and albums are preferred, and it now makes sense. Think Bee Gees, Micheal Jackson etc...

majestikc

All Bruce Swediens (Micheal Jackson etc) stuff sounds really good, it's about all I can listen to enjoy the production of lately, even though I'm completely not a fan of pop/RnB type music, oddly enough (although not so surprisingly) he doesn't like to use compression and uses it sparingly when he does.

I started using compressor to make things brighter and MORE dynamic now....or rather: to make the dynamics count.

It's just a tool at the end of the day that gets misused, kind of like beating yourself in the head with a hammer, not what it's meant for but if that's how you want to use it then go ahead.

deanBailey

Yeah, I've been following this for the past year or two (well ever since my studio has been open).

Its basically the industry standard for modern albums to be loud. But I wish it wasn't. Nothing is more pleasing to the ear than Dynamics (imo).

Bob-Dubery

See http://georgegraham.com/compress.html for an article by a US producer/engineer/critic that looks at the issue of egregious compression.

His point about cascading compression is interesting. My car has a Pioneer mp3/CD player, and guess what - yes! It has a compressor. I've turned it off, but it's on by default.

I have a couple of discs that have a sound that Mr Graham approves of. I didn't buy them for that reason, and neither should you, but I will say that he has a valid point. There is a real difference when an album is allowed a good dynamic range. It sounds trite and obvious, but it's a treat to hear that range, to hear things soft or loud because that's how a musician played that particular part, and to hear the gap between the soft and the loud.

AlanRatcliffe

majestikc wrote It's just a tool at the end of the day that gets misused, kind of like beating yourself in the head with a hammer, not what it's meant for but if that's how you want to use it then go ahead.

Well said - even with the head/go ahead pun ?

I was taught that compression is a problem solving tool rather than an effect and that's how I try use it (although I do also fall prey to overusing it on occasion). If there's a peak or two that's limiting how loud I can push a track in a mix or if I have a performance that's less than ideal, I'll slap on a compressor. I must however start being careful how much master buss limiting or loudness maximisation I use - easy to fall prey to that one.

TomCat

A set of general rules for myself when using compressors are:
1: Use as little as possible and only where necessary.
2: No more than 6dB max of gain Reduction to keep things natural
3: Keep the compression ratios low (Preferably below 2:1)

Anyway, those are my rules for myself. the results are natural dynamics in the mix, but improved clarity and space between instruments. Works for my mixing style.

Neps

TomCat wrote A set of general rules for myself when using compressors are:
1: Use as little as possible and only where necessary.
2: No more than 6dB max of gain Reduction to keep things natural
3: Keep the compression ratios low (Preferably below 2:1)

Been my rule for a while.. But now I find myself in a tight spot.. ☹ Doing a music show at the moment the producers want the mix to boom out over air, people at broadcaster wants the mix to boom, the FCC & QCC people want it lower and me and the other engineers mixing the music want dynamics.. So what now..?! Well, reach for the trusty LM2007 and make it LOUD!! It sux.. but what can I do?!

majestikc

Most of the time what I try do is copy the track then compress the second track but get it as relatively loud to the original track as possible, THEN compare the two, half the the time the compressed version doesn't actually sound better, it's just that it was louder, which the ear prefers.

When that's the case I know not to bother with compression on that sound, especially if it's sitting nicely with everything else, otherwise I would just be doing it out of bad habit........"all the other cool kids are compressing so I want to as well".

..."Nothing is as approved as mediocrity, the majority has established it and it fixes it's fangs on whatever gets beyond it either way." Blaise Pascal