Different Speakers?

Lood

I posted here a while ago about my PA sytem not really giving me the sound I'm looking for. I suppose you get speakers and then you get speakers. So, if I replaced the existing speakers with better quality ones, would this improve the sound quality as well?

TomCat

What do you currently have? Also, what other kit makes up the whole PA?

A sound system is only as good as its weakest component. Be careful of spending money that might not solve the issues or give you what you want.

Where are you located? If you are in Jozy, i might be able to help you. ?

Cheers

AlanRatcliffe

Lood wrote: I suppose you get speakers and then you get speakers.

Unfortunately yes. Priced accordingly too. A lot of the budget speaker cabinets are simply boxes with drivers and a generic crossover - if they sound good (unlikely), it's by pure chance. The better ones are carefully designed to get a target frequency response from the chosen drivers (which often dictate the price range).

TomCat wrote: A sound system is only as good as its weakest component.

+1. That is usually the speakers in most systems - even the best ones, but a bad amp can bring down the quality of an entire system. And once you have used a good amp and speakers, there is no real way of going back.

Lood wrote:So, if I replaced the existing speakers with better quality ones, would this improve the sound quality as well?

What do you have now?

Lood

Thanks a lot for your interest guys ? I've gathered some info that might allow you to get an idea what you're dealing with and I must add that I bought this system about 16 years ago.

The amp is a "Phillipson PC6300 Powered Mixer" with 6 input channels. On each of these are one of the following turnable knobs: Treble, Bass, Reverb/Effect and Volume. Each channel also has a Hi Z and Low Z inputs.

Next to the above mentioned is a 5 channel equalizer with sliders.

Below the equalizer are the following:
2 x Tape In inputs
2 x Aux In inputs
2 x Effect Loop sockets - send and return
Mixer Out
Amp In
Monitor send
Master Reverb
Master Monitor
Master Volume
Phantom Power

On the back it has 2 outputs where the speaker leads plug in and it says:
Output Power: 300W RMS at 4 OHM
200W RMS at 8 OHM

The speakers are nicely covered in gray carpet type material - so nicely done that I can find a way to open them up :-[ The name is Musician.
I took one of the carry handles out and looked inside with a torch. There's nothing funny in there but the two inputs - one probably used if you want to connect extra speakers.
Then there's a big 12" speaker at the bottom with no name or anything written on it and at the top, ttw tiny plastic like, look like tweaters I suppose that sits together in a tapered like housing which as fastened to the box.

I hope this can help.

TomCat

I presume you are a solo musician doing gigs in clubs etc.

The kit you have is relatively basic and I'll break it down as follows:

Mixer/Amp
Everything should be fine there as long as everything still works. 16 years is a long time. 8)
Don't know if you have had it serviced regularly. :-\
Usually the pots and sliders are the items that take the most punishment from knocks, dirt etc.

Loudspeakers
These are pretty basic and seem to contain what is called a "Piezo" Tweeter on a small plastic horn.
IMO I'd say that the loudspeakers are your weakest link at the moment as they will lack any decent midrange or vocal projection. ☹

Depending on budget, one can look at a whole system upgrade to new Kit or just start with the loudspeakers.

Loudspeaker Upgrade:
There are many good products on the market at the moment.
I would probable put my money on a pair of JBL JRX-112M loudspeakers in terms of performance versus cost.

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/general/Product.aspx?PId=85&MId=3

These will also match nicely with your powered mixer.
They also are in a wedge format so you can use them as stage foldback loudspeakers in a larger gig as well if you have rented a larger PA.

Another option is to go the powered loudspeaker route (more expensive).
JBL have released their new EON range. The JBL EON 315 might be a good option, but is more expensive than the JRX.

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/General/Product.aspx?PId=268&MId=3

There are also loudspeakers from HK Audio (Self Powered), Yamaha (Self Powered) that would also be suitable.

Hope this helps.. ?

Lood

Thanks Tomcat,
I only fool around at home and mainly use the system to play my keyboard through and otherwise I play CD's through it together with an electric guitar. I did buy a guitar amp now so this system will only be used for the keyboard and CD player.
It has however never been serviced but on the other hand it has also never seen any abuse or much travel, dust etc.

You do have it spot on with your assumtion about the midrange and vocal projection - that's exactly what is very poor at the moment or rather lacking.
I'll have a look at those JBL JRX speakers as I'm sure they will be a huge improvement - they definitely did so in my car.

TomCat

Hi Lood

Also keep a lookout on Gumtree.

Very often someone is selling the older EON 15's or EON 10's. These are also self powered and work well.

After the original EON (grey in colour) came EON G2 (Black in Colour). These are double the power of the first generation EONS.

Good luck.

AlanRatcliffe

I agree the speakers are probably your weakest link. Musician were (are?) a company in Kimberley making budget speaker cabs with cheap drivers, Motorola piezo tweeters, no crossovers and a grey carpet covering. The lack of crossovers isn't a huge problem in a 12" cab as the bass driver tapers off naturally at 4KHz, which is exactly where a piezo tweeter starts and piezos don't need a crossover as they just reject the lower frequencies. The 15" cabs had a whack of upper midrange missing though. The cabinets were the biggest problem as they were just generic designs.

BTW - remove the speaker grilles and the front loaded bass drivers come out, which gives you access to the inside of the cabs.

+1 on the JBL Eons. Good speakers for the price and they pop up fairly regularly. If you can find a pair of the old locally manufactured Celestion Saturns, they are also worth it - they have a very flat, almost hifi response that is ideal for home usage at volume - they are like having studio monitors that can go real loud.

But there is a ton of stuff out there. It's worth taking the time and touring the bigger music stores to audition all the speakers in your price range. Even if you don't buy new, it's worth it just to get an idea of what is out there and the costs involved.

Spyke

As with car audio, I'm also sure that merely changing the speakers alone (using the old enclosures) will not give you the full effect of the upgrade. Fitting new drivers into matched enclosures (or buying a complete unit) will yield better gains.

DaFiz

Just as a matter of opinion please TomCat. I'm involved with a band that has a Yamaha mixing desk playing through a pair of Yamaha powered speakers. It looks like "top of the range" equipment and sounds like it too... absolutely awesome ?. Would it be feasable for Lood here to upgrade to powered speakers if he already has an amplified PA or would that be overkill...? he would only then use a pre-amplified signal or should he simply part with the PA, buy a small mixer and the powered speakers...huh? :-\

From what I've seen in my local music shops there are smaller versions of those powered speakers for the solo act as well as smaller mixers by Yamaha.

TomCat

The main purpose for the loudspeakers Lood is looking for is to use in his room. Yes, the smaller Yamahas are great loudspeakers and would certainly do the job.

The only real question would be the affordability. There would be no problem using the existing mixer. Only the power amps in the mixer would be redundant for now. Should the mixer later start giving trouble and become unreliable, then a mixer upgrade as you have suggested would be the way to go.

Alan's suggestion of the Celestions is also an excellent one if one can still find some.