Hey all - first time posting here, was wondering if anyone had any thoughts...

After years of lusting after vintage guitars, I've started looking at vintage amps on sites like Reverb, etc. HOWEVER, do old (particularly American) amps work in south africa without some kind of step down transformer being added? Is it even worth it buying a vintage amp with expensive 50 year old transformers if I then have to wire it all through something cheap I bought at Ellies?

Sincerely, an electrically illiterate guitarist

CapeTownJono Sincerely, an electrically illiterate guitarist

Yeah me too!

I should know, but I don't - barring input from someone FAR more knowledgable - I do think you'll need something to turn 220v into 110v if it hasn't already been modded. Also valves are wierd - they are robust until they are not and getting $$$ in local monies.

Not that I want to advise against - but definitely chat to someone smarter than me before dropping $$$ on a import. The guys at the Gear Junkie have and do handle these thing regularly and are always happy to have a chat over a cuppa ️

Hey V8, thanks for the response.

I'm guessing you're right and I'd need some kind of device for a vintage amp that was never designed to be played world wide... although Fender were exporting everywhere by the 70's (and I can't afford anything much older than that)? American power is at 120V, Europe is 220 - 240V and South Africa is at 230V - So as long as an amp works in Europe it should work here? right? but more detective work needed I think...

I've been playing tube amps for years (gigs and all) and I find they're a LOT more robust than people give them credit for... Valves ARE weird, but they often fail slowly - you're way more likely to have your sound get a bit thin and anemic during a gig rather than the full on "flames shooting out the back" rock star moment we're all fearing/ hoping for. hahaha. Tubes can be pricey but it's not too bad, and I wouldn't care too much about replacing the originals (if a valve has been working since the 70's... its probably due to be replaced anyway).

So... more homework for me I think...
Any old amp owners are more than welcome to school me.

hahaha, how did someone mod a fender twin beyond recognition and then sleep at night? That's such a classic tone... I actually own an old classic 50 and I think that's one of the only ways to kill them (those tube sockets are mounted right onto the board - I've actually heard stories of them melting the pcb before!), but they do sound good when they sound good.

I'd LOVE to find something locally but... you have to be very patient and very lucky if you're looking for something particular in SA... I've never even seen a vintage Gibson amp locally, but I know they have a pretty devout fan base amongst "bargain" vintage buyers - would love to try one. Otherwise I could always go the Reissue or Blues jr route, which would be easier. I'm always checking Gear Junkie/ classifieds though, sometimes you get lucky and find gold.

That Super Bass must have sounded glorious but is definitely a LOT of amp, haha. I'm betting we'd both hear it right now if the current owner turned it up full.

If you want to shop local and are willing to pay a bit for shipping, you can also checkout Ronnies Allbang and Strumit in Joburg, They seem to have a steady flow of old tube amps cruise through their shop - in fact they just
posted a bunch a week ago (I'll add the listing to the bottom of the post). Their facebook is at https://www.facebook.com/RonniesAllbangandStrumit/ if you want to look at pictures.

W.r.t. transformers etc. the mod by @Johnny-B is a fine one and quite nice since it is internal to the amp and nobody can accidentally plug it into the wrong thing in the future. It also doesn't mess with the amps own input circuitry so it is possible to undo the mod quite easily and sell the amp on in an almost "untouched" condition.

If you don't want to touch the amp at all you can look at something like this:
https://www.rabtron.co.za/212-220v-to-110v-converters
which will allow you to use the 110V amp by plugging into this little boksie, but beware forgetting about the boksie.

So the transformers (whether internal like @Johnny-B did, or external in a boksie) will sort out the 230V->110V conversion but it doesn't sort out the 50Hz->60Hz conversion that you will also need if you wanted to match USA power exactly. In my opinion that shouldn't really matter since the AC gets rectified first thing after it hits the input transformer on the amp, but at a slower switching frequency the internal DC on the amp will have ever so slightly more ripple. I don't think it will be audible but my ears aren't very golden so who am I to say.

If you really want to get around this, there are two ways I can think of - one is to bump the values on the capacitors after the rectifier to smooth out the extra ripple but that means you are digging around vintage amp internals which you might not want to do. The second is to buy a inverter that will generate clean 110V 60HZ AC from a battery which matches the US power exactly. I don't have a part handy, but I would just make sure it is a "true/pure sinewave" inverter if you do decide to go this way.

Ronnies listing below:

Ronnie’s ALL-TUBE January BLOW OUT !!!
In stock & ready to rock...

• FENDER Hot Rod Deluxe, Blonde Limited Edition:
  Portable 2-channel 40 watt tube combo powerful enough to gig with. For those classy cleans combined with the saturated overdrive & distortion that Fender are famous for.
• Single 12" Jenson red label speaker.
• External speaker out.
• Pair of 6L6 power tubes and a pair of 12AX7s in the pre amp.
• Made in Mexico.

Price = R10,000.

---

• FENDER BASSMAN-100 Head & Cab :
  A killer mid 70’s Silverface that’s just as great for guitar, Bass & even keyboards. Matching cab has two full range 15" Fender Special-design speakers inside. All original & Excellent working order.
  PRICE = R8,000.
  _________________________________
• VOX AC30-C2 | British Racing Green | Custom Limited :
  With a quartet of EL84 power tubes this legend pumps out 30 watts of pure Class-A British power.
  With a pair of 12” G12M Celestion Greenbacks, Normal & Top Boost Channels with Reverb & Tremolo, what a Beast !!!
  Price = R12,500.
  _________________________________
• H&K – STATESMAN QUAD EL84 :
  This 2-channel 40W combo pumps out a range of tones through a 12″ Eminence RockDriver speaker. In spirit and in substance this is the kind of voicing people have been jamming to since the early ’60s.
• Clean + Twang and Overdrive + Boost channels.
• Spring reverb & Serial effects loop.
• Twang and Boost Mode, adjustable Reverb Balance.
• Four EL84 tubes & Two 12AX7 tubes.
  Price = R8,000.
  _________________________________
• WHARFDALE TCT35 :
  A superbly underrated valve amp designed by Marshall’s Steve Grinrod, a real gem.
  35W All-valve 1×12″ combo featuring 6L6 tube output which can handle tones from clean country to crunchy blues and more.
  Price = R5000.
  _________________________________
• H&K EDITION TUBE - 20th Anniversary :
  Powered by a classic twin EL84-driven power amp, this dual channel, 20-watt all-tube combo delivers vintage cleans to dirty Rock tones & everything in between. Rockdriver Cream speaker, on-board spring reverb & effects loop.
  Price = R4,500.
  _________________________________
• IBANEZ IL15 :
  A portable 15W Combo for Metal players. More than enough output for midsize venues and recording.
• Genuine Celestion speaker provides timeless tone.
• Separate EQs give you more control.
• Designed for down-tuned metal players.
  Price = R4,000.
  _________________________________
• ASHDOWN KLYSTRON C210n-500 :
  575W Ashdown Klystron is a powerhouse Bass-combo with 2 x10″ speakers & horn. It features a single switchable input for passive and active instruments with a blend of solid state and dual triode tube preamp stages.
• Built-in dual band compressor.
• Onboard Subharmonic generator.
  -Tube grind and EQ pre-shape.
• Custom developed Neodymium speakers.
  Price = R9,000.
  _________________________________

wow, thanks guys - lots of info.

Firstly, that 40's Gibson looks awesome, what a piece of history! As a weird coincidence, while Johnny B was posting that I was watching a doc on Charlie Christian who apparently used something very similar... Great job on the mod!

There's definitely some amazing gear floating around SA (I've ended up buying some of it myself, haha), I haven't looked at Ronnie's Allbang in a while (I'm in CT), but you're right, I should check more often. My point was that it's hard in our market to get something SPECIFIC... if I wanted a 70's princeton it's not like I could look at 5 different amps in a month and choose the best deal, lol. [AM REALLY HOPING 5 GUYS COME FORWARD AT THIS MOMENT WITH OLD PRINCETONS, haha].

So are modern amps built in "American" and "european" versions? I would assume they just have transformers that are capable of working on both sides of the pond (with a switchable transformer like guideothepimmp mentioned)? Anybody know what era of Fender started doing that? (I'm aware that American guitarists complain of their amps sounding "different" in europe when they just plug into the wall, but otherwise they seem to operate fine).

Thanks for all the input guys, I spent WAY too much of my life learning about guitars and not nearly enough finding out how amps really work...

J

PS: guidothepimmp - I'm actually selling MY Mesa at the moment. It's a 90's 50 caliber - great minds...

CapeTownJono

Great minds indeed. If you peruse Youtube, check out an amp repair guy called Uncle Doug. He works on and restores old amps.. obscure goodies like oahu from the 40s.. all matter of Fenders, marshalls.. the works.. and he has a great sense of humour too. He delves into the schematics, issues.. everything. You might enjoy it. He also speaks about funnies to look out for.

Huh... go figure. I mentioned Uncle Doug and he releases a video a few hours ago working on a Princeton. A little serendipitous...

Enjoy

Thanks! will check his channel out tonight, that sound right up my alley.

to be honest my heart says Princeton (Or maybe tweed Deluxe), but my wallet probably says 70's Vibrochamp... haha.

CapeTownJono [AM REALLY HOPING 5 GUYS COME FORWARD AT THIS MOMENT WITH OLD PRINCETONS, haha].

...I know a guy Aaaannnd he does have a few too many amps...I'll ask, but no promises - he's had that princeton for a long time and doesn't often move gear on.

... should i start celebrating? lol. Let me know if your buddy wants to sell, but no pressure. In the meantime, I should probably start selling old gear/ furniture/ bone marrow so I can pounce on a deal if it shows up. Thanks again for all the input guys - watch this space...

CapeTownJono Heh, he's a very slow mover on of gear. But, I will ask.

A problem with older amps (and some new ones), is that the line Voltage has crept up since they were released.
USA amplifiers generally run too hot at their modern supply, and here, well, we are supposed to run at 230 VAC, but I lived in a town where we had 240 VAC, and higher.
I know a lot of the newer amps are labelled "220 - 230 V" or "230 - 240 V", but I have a few that runs the filament voltage too high, at the recommended supply rating.
So, just fitting a 220 - 110 V transformer to an USA amp, will likely leave you with too high filament voltage.
I find, most of my amps (I am still working through them) like to run at 220 - 225 V. I am using a Bucking transformer to reduce the 230 VAC supply.

We and some other countries get the "230 V" amps, there is one that has "220 V" products for their market. Japan?
The other route would be to replace the amp's power transformer with a multi - tap one, I know some amps come that way, allowing the user to plug into whatever his/her network provides.

With guitar speakers emphasis is on "recone" and with genuine recone kit. Anything else will end up with a working speaker at best but it will probably sound more like a PA midrange than a guitar speaker. The other option is a new speaker from Celestion for most British and EU or USA rock/metal amps or a Jensen for the classic Fender clean sound.

CapeTownJono Heya, if you are still in the market for a interesting Princeton, let me know - I know that one I mentioned will be avialable within the next couple of weeks.