Tips needed for recording metal/hardcore...

doc-phil

I'm wondering if anybody can give me some pointers here...

I play mostly metal and hardcore and I've been writing a few songs here and there, but I am never happy with the recordings I end up with. The problem I'm having is with recording the percussive palm-muting that's usually played in time with the double bass pedal at the breakdown of a particular song. My tone seems so mushy, not very tight at all. It sounds like I'm just playing very sloppily and individual notes can barely be distinguished.

I use Gearbox mostly for recording along with Mackie Tracktion 3, I've tried the demos of Amplitube Metal, Revalver MKIII and Guitar Rig 3 and had the same issues...

So i wanna know, how can i tighten up my tone and get that percussive 'hit-you-in-the-chest' palm muting sound synonymous with hardcore and metal bands???

andrewjbryson

1. Practice those riffs until you are blue in the face
2. Use a noise gate / compressor
3. Go out and buy a Hughes and Kettner Valve Amp / or the TubeMan PreAmp
4. Double up your channels (Even 4 takes of the same riff / PAN 2 hard left and 2 hard right)
5. Touch of reverb on some of channels
6. Curve your mids (play with your EQ until you get that Killswitch Engage tone)
7. Be sure that there is no latency , so drag all your tracks Dead on the starting Beat/Bar)
8. Dont record all with the same AMP sim/ Distortion type (2 low gain tracks + 2 hi-gain tracks)
9. Use your Bridge pickup
10. Use Humbuckers! EMG 85/81 / Seymour Duncan Distortion / Dimarzio SuperDistortion

One last thing :

Single coil + Metal Riffs = Fail

doc-phil

haha thanks for the tips!
1. I practice as much as possible
2. I use a noise gate, but seldom a compressor, i'l experiment with that.
3. I dont have the money ?
4. I usually double-track guitars, I've found quad-tracking just sounds messed up :-\
5. I'l try some reverb, but generally I thought distortion-heavy rhythm riffs should be bone dry.
6. I know next to nothing about EQ, i'l browse around this site for some articles ?
7. I've never had a problem with latency.
8. I never thought of that i'll definately give it a go!
9. The pickups on my epi les paul, while offering amazing tone in the neck pickup, give me below-par results in any other position, I really need to get a new guitar!
10. My pickups are epiphone standard, so there is much room for improvement in the pickup dept.

Thanks again for the pointers! 8)

deanBailey

Sounds like a right hand problem to me:

1. Really practicing isn't practicing if you're not doing something you can't already do. I'm not saying you don't, it was just a general comment lol.
But mainly what seems to be the problem (just from hearing the problem) is your right hand is not firm, heavy, hard and tight enough.

When you record, look at the peaks of the DI track and see how your peaks are looking. Your track should basically have 'Eiffel Towers' for palm mutes.
REALLY REALLY dig your pick into your strings when you PM but listen that it doesn't change the pitch of the note.
I ruin picks by the fourth day of heavy constant playing because of this.

2. Don't compress OD tone as distortion it is a compressed signal. Parallel compression sometimes saves the day.
Noise gate is just there to clean up your silences so it's not gonna help in the playing area.

3. +1 on the tube amp, but it's not THAT neccessary as I've gotten that tone you need on combo amps. 5150's and Marshall Amps normally help with what you're looking for as it's emphasized mids. (mids mids mids) The lower mids on the marshals really help too to get that note out in the mutes.

But go back to Revalver MKIII, whip out the Greener (pedal) > 6505 (not the plus) > vintage 30 speakers (it's last on the speaker list).
Greener:
OD = off
Tone = Depends on the guitar,
Level = FULL.

6505:
Green Channel
Pres = Full
Res = Full
Pre gain = 9 - 12 o clock
Low = full (because I feel the sim lacks low end),
Mids = 9 - 2 o clock,
High = 10 - 2 o clock
Post Gain = Full

I sometimes increase the 'high EQ' on the speak sim.

There are other tweaks like tube changing and input level adjustments, but this should get you in the ball park regarding tone, provided you have a guitar that can deliver ?.

4. Quad tracking isn't that neccessary to getting the tone you're looking for. If the Quad-Tracking is messy it means you're not locking in with the previous take. Inspect your wave image, are the 'Eiffel towers' on the same vertical grid lines as the previous?
It's the differences in the playing that makes it sound BIG, so copying and pasting a track will just make it louder not bigger.

5. Zero reverb on Rhythms. It just gets messy. Plus is needs to be "in-your-face" and reverb does the opposite. On leads it's good.

6. EQ does help, but if you stick to the EQ I gave you on the Amp sim you should be fine.

7. +1 to Andrew if there is a problem.

8. In metal...Bridge pickup always for Rhythms because it's brighter and the low end is more controlled, Neck for leads because it's smoother. EMG's really do help with this tone, because passives sorta needs a more controlling hand to dig harder as its not compressed like actives. I like to think of it as actives = Automatic, Passives = Manual ?.

9. +1 to andrew, but Les Paul pups are fine for this.

It's really all in the right hand. Fast, precise, articulate picking is the key. When guitarists record with me, I usually piss them off because I make them re-take and re-take and re-take parts if their parts don't, look good, feel good, sound good or even if one note is out of tune lol. They do realise it's for the best with the end result though ?.

EDIT: On Revalver, adjust the input and out levels often as they sometimes change. Just click the two "learn" buttons on the top while there's a signal passing through it, to auto-adjust to the level it's receiving.
Depending on the tuning, use thicker gauge strings so that it's tight and the strings don't oscillate too much. Less play means quicker picking. I use 13-56 in D standard and sometimes in Drop D.
52's are probably the smallest I'll go.

andrewjbryson

Good points Dean.... What Pick do you use by the way?

deanBailey

I like small/jazz tear drops because they're more efficient to move around for quick picking.

I used black Jazz III's but they're a tad bit small and have little grip so it slips.
Then I moved to Dunlop jazz Tortex. Purple ones because they're thicker and which means they have less play when picking. Then the green ones because the slightly thinner which gives me a more chunky tone (to me at least) but flap around a little too much for my style.
At the moment Dylan (GFSA forum member) gave me a Paul Gilbert signature pick to try out and I think I'm in love ? lol. It's the best of everything I need in a pick. But I'm told you can't get them in SA, But I'm gonna try and import a box of them as soon as I can.

Now they just need to invent a pick that doesn't lose it's sharp edge ?

andrewjbryson

I like Jazz 3's but I wouldn't mind trying that Paul Gilbert pick...

doc-phil

Shot Dean! I appreciate the effort that went into that post!!

When I quad track, or even dual track my guitars I just recorded once while arming two tracks, I guess I've learnt my lesson.

While I know there's always room for improvement on the practicing front, I think I've been practicing my riffs enough, the thing is, when I play them using my actual physical amp and effects pedal in my room it sounds how I want it, its just the amp sims that seem to mess up. I'll definetly use the tips given abt Revalver I'm sure that will help a lot.

I've pretty much used the same pick ever since I started playing guitar 4 years ago, its a sharkfin and its super super thick but it is getting quite frayed around the edges so I suppose I'd better put it to rest. I just cant seem to play with any picks but sharkfins, i just don't like the teardrop shape.

I use Beefy Slinky strings, (11 - 56) and normally tune to drop C, and occasionally some strange tuning that I see bands like Bring Me The Horison using, its sort of half a step down from drop C or something. Maybe I should try some thicker gauge strings, although I struggle enough as it is with certain leads with the strings I'm using.

?

deanBailey

doc-phil wrote Shot Dean! I appreciate the effort that went into that post!!

No problem, always glad to help.

While I know there's always room for improvement on the practicing front, I think I've been practicing my riffs enough, the thing is, when I play them using my actual physical amp and effects pedal in my room it sounds how I want it, its just the amp sims that seem to mess up. I'll definetly use the tips given abt Revalver I'm sure that will help a lot.

Ah hah, I've had the same problem in the beginning. When I started out I used a cheapo cort into a Ibanez 10w (The cort got destroyed in "experimental luthierism" but the amp I still to this day for practicing)

I've pretty much used the same pick ever since I started playing guitar 4 years ago, its a sharkfin and its super super thick but it is getting quite frayed around the edges so I suppose I'd better put it to rest. I just cant seem to play with any picks but sharkfins, i just don't like the teardrop shape.

4 years?? Woah ???
It's probably because you're used to it from using it all this time. Picks do make a difference and most people don't realise it. New picks + New strings is one of the best things ever!

doc-phil

deanBailey wrote 4 years?? Woah ???

haha I thought you'd be shocked.. I dunno how its lasted so long, (plus I dunno how I've managed to not lose it) maybe it's because it is so thick, it has virtually no give at all. It could also be because I'm quite gentle when I play, I don't pound the guitar when I play, maybe thats a bad thing ?