Pro's and con's of Pro Tools v/s all the rest?

majestikc · 2009-04-11T10:26:46+00:00

I was wondering what exactly is so great about pro tools, what can it do, besides run McDSP plugins and a few others, that Cubase or Sonar etc can't? Are th...

Pro's and con's of Pro Tools v/s all the rest?

AlanRatcliffe

I'm sure Matt or Neps will step in here too, but AFAIC, the only real advantage of Protools these days is that it is the industry standard. If you want to take your project files to another pro studio to mix or add tracks, chances are that they will have ProTools rather than Cubase or Sonar.

Renesongs

Both Sonar and Cubase are IMO far more flexible functional intuitive than pro tools . I think the industry in SA stick to pro tools because of the archaic idea that a DAW can only be run on MAC's

majestikc

That's pretty much what I thought.

Just a lot of steam blowing out a lot of bumholes.

I understand it WAS once what you needed to take digital music creation seriously, but that was over 10yrs ago.

matta

At the end of the day pick a tool that works for YOU and your workflow.

If you are a bedroom muso then get whatever works for your budget and makes it easy to record/capture your ideas... it really is THAT simple.

Is Pro Tools THE industry standard? Well it depends on the industry. In my case, yes, it is.

Does it make it better than X or Y DAW, well there are some nifty features like multi track beat detective, elastic audio, playlists etc that have in the past made it VERY useful, but these features are now appearing in other DAW's.

Likewise MIDI was terrible in PT prior to PT 8.0, not that has changed and I feel PT is now not only a great recording/editing DAW but a fully functioning sequencer.

I have been using Pro Tools since V5 and for 8+ years. Part of my shift from Cubase was walking into a studio in the USA in 2001 and finding out that outside of SA ALL major studios work in PT, so it is standard, yes, there are a handful that work in other DAW's but ALL of the commercial studios I've worked out of aboard in Europe and the USA are using PT.

I had to make a choice, stick with Cubase or move to PT and make my skill set salable, and since I've done this as my living for several years I decided to make the move.

Even now about 40% of my client base in foreign, from all over the USA and Europe... and believe me the first question I'm asked when they inquire about the studio is... “Do you have Pro Tools”.

To that end I think it is a standard... is it THE standard, well that is up to you, what is YOUR standard?

Cheers

Matt

deanBailey

The Cons: It can be very expensive

The Pros: use them. ?

But seriously, I think I'll make the PT jump from Cubase just for the plugs Matt mentioned.

matta

deanBailey wrote: The Cons: It can be very expensive

The Pros: use them. ?

But seriously, I think I'll make the PT jump from Cubase just for the plugs Matt mentioned.

BD is really the only 'plug' and it works as an Audiosuite. It def. helps the editing process along with Tab to Transient features as well and for me PT does offer an 'old school' console/tape machine work flow, which I enjoy.

RE costs, PT itself is NOT expensive. Pro Tools HD may be, at least for you or I but major Post Production Houses charging R1,000 - R1,500 and hour can write off the costs of in a single fiscal year... Not to mention PRO MIXER's who charge $10,000 a mix, that will easily cover the cost of an HD1 Core with applicable i/o... so for them the cost really is a non-issue.

THAT said, Pro Tools is accessible to anyone who can afford to be recording on their computer in the way of PT LE. LE offers features similar and in many ways the same as HD (albeit not nearly to the same extent) sessions between LE and D are 100% interchangeable, which is more than I can say for other DAW's where there the more expensive applications are not backwards compatible with 'LE' or scaled down versions.

If you can use PT LE you can use HD, the software's main feature set and shortcuts are the same and MANY engineers use HD in the studios and have LE set-ups at home for editing.

The cost to get into PT LE? A WHOPPING R3,500+ for an Mbox Mini, including the latest PT 8.0 software. there are limitations, 48 audio tracks, 128 midi tracks, a personal gripe, lack of ADC (Automatic Delay Compensations), but many of these have workarounds... often not conducive to elegant work flow, but can be worked around.

Again I'm not here to say PT is THE way to go, it is AN option, find something that works for your budget and your way of making music... for some that means a 4 track cassette deck, others HD.

Don't buy into HYPE, I often quote an adage I've been using for years saying "there is too much hype in the type", get out there experiment and pick something that works for you...

Cheers

Matt

matta

Renesongs wrote: I think the industry in SA stick to pro tools because of the archaic idea that a DAW can only be run on MAC's

Hmmm... yes that must be the reason, it couldn't possibly have to do with anything else ?

Matt

majestikc

From Sonar 6 they had Audiosnap which is a beat detective time manipulating tool and more.

But I'm now, more than ever, satisfied with the "pro tools is the best and if you're not using it you're loosing out big time..." debate.Sonar should be more than fine for me.....especially since I prefer to try play in time than rely on those tools to fix me, or somebody who cant sing's vocal etc (that seems grammatically correct even though I now it isn't).
Plus in sonar you can put little picture's on the track's instead of just naming them (the most useless useful thing to have).

So it's good to hear it from people who actually use Poor Tools.

Plus a windows pc is a lot cheaper.

majestikc

Plus "my standard" is to just try get some good recordings going, I could care less how where when or on what.

Whatever works, works for me

matta

majestikc wrote:So it's good to hear it from people who actually use Poor Tools.

Plus a windows pc is a lot cheaper.

Way to keep an open mind :-[

BTW PT runs great on a PC... I ran my studio for MANY years on a PC running PT.

I now run on Mac's, not because it CAN'T run on a PC, I just prefer the Mac OS.

Matt

majestikc

I know, I ran the m-powered version that came with my m-audio delta 1010.

Should re-install and use it just as ANOTHER tool maybe.

I already use Adobe Audition along with Sonar because of it's wav editing.And apparently it's possible to open up a clip directly from Sonar in Audition and Sony sound forge from within sonar just to make use of there wav editing ability's, sort of like re-wiring it, if anyone knows how?

AlanRatcliffe

majestikc wrote: Should re-install and use it just as ANOTHER tool maybe.

They are complex beasties to learn in-depth. I'd say stick with one and master it, rather than dividing yourself across a few different packages.

And apparently it's possible to open up a clip directly from Sonar in Audition and Sony sound forge from within sonar just to make use of there wav editing ability's, sort of like re-wiring it, if anyone knows how?

Should be autodetected and show up in your "Tools" menu (my Sound Forge did). Integrates simply, but nicely. Select a clip, click on Sound Forge under Tools and the clip opens in SF. Edit and save in SF and when you close SF, Sonar asks if you want to load the edited version - click on "yes" and it imports, replacing the edited clip.

majestikc

Is that an "Authentic" bought copy of Sound Forge?

.....because that might be my problem with Audition (don't tell the FBI though).

matta

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:They are complex beasties to learn in-depth. I'd say stick with one and master it, rather than dividing yourself across a few different packages.

Indeed, I think there are SOOO many options these days that they actually HINDER creativity. I tend to hoard these little phrases I've used over the years including a favourite: "Limitations breed ingenuity".

Sgt. Peppers was done on a 3 track, yip THREE whole tracks with those AMAZING arrangements, no pitch correction, drum edits etc... their 'basic' technology forced them to use it as an instrument and Geoff Emerick says he is not sure he could have made that record any other way.

Having EVERY DAW/Plugin under the sun ill, in my opinion, LIMIT you as you are not learning what your particular DAW can and CAN'T do and work around it.

The whole 'jack of all trades master of none' debate...

Is that an "Authentic" bought copy of Sound Forge?

.....because that might be my problem with Audition (don't tell the FBI though).

Um, not the FBI you should be worried about, but the BSA, can I have you details because I'll be sending them over in 5,4,3,2,1... ?

On a more serious note, I cannot, and I hope the other Moderators feel the same way, condone the use of 'cracked' or 'pirated' software, there really is NO excuse for it.

There are SOOO many great alternatives, yes they may not be 'standards' but will allow you to make great recordings for FREE or a nomination donation.

I highly recommend "Computer Music", you can get it at CNA or sometimes in Paper Weight. The cover DVD has a FULL FREE DAW called 'Muz' and TONS of free plugins and instruments.

As an audio editor you can get the FREEWARE Audacity, while not as fully featured as Sound Forge, it does a great job of basic edits... and it is FREE.

Cheers

Matt

AlanRatcliffe

Is that an "Authentic" bought copy of Sound Forge?

It is. I support the software I use to ensure that there are always new versions on the horizon. If you can't afford the software, there are other options available - feel free to ask about them on the forum.

On an official note: GFSA forum does not support, and is in fact actively opposed to software piracy. Advocating piracy is strictly against the rules and one of the quickest and surest ways to earn a permanent ban. So please, no more on the topic.

[EDIT] I see Matt beat me to it. But I'll leave my post as it stands.

majestikc

I understand, but at the moment I'm not in a financial position to really buy all this stuff, as soon as I am though, I now KNOW what I will buy.And not everything I use is pirate.

I like to think of it as "extended" demo's, and hopefully they will actually get me the cash to be able to buy and support the company's that enabled me to get that cash in the first place, kind of like a "chicken or the egg" situation.

At the moment I'd rather spend money on physical gear and THEN the software.

The whole "piracy" thing could be an endless debate (or not), but personally I think it's a good thing if it enables guy's like me to earn the money to then support those company's that helped them earn that money, rather than guy's like myself not being able to do what we need and the company's not getting any money in the long run either....then we both loose out.

Not to mention the exchange rate etc etc.

So I'm all for it if it's not abused and the money eventually get's to the company's anyway, whether it's before or after.

That's just my opinion, and it's coming from a financially inept position (if I could afford the stuff but still pirated it, then it would be a different matter).

Should post a new topic about this.

AlanRatcliffe

I'm aware of all of the usual pro-piracy arguments, and while some of them do hold water - the simple fact of the matter is that pirating software is illegal and as such I cannot allow discussion condoning it or justifying its usage on this forum. </thread>