Bob-Dubery
Hi all,
More and more often I see albums made available in digital versions. You download a set of MP3s and, sometimes, the artwork as a jpeg. There's a financial saving to be made in this way, and you get the music quicker.
BUT... I have heard that the blank CD media that I would usually write these files onto doesn't last as long as "proper" CDs bought in a shop from an e-tailer.
Is this true?
Are there options of higher quality media that have a comparable shelf life?
AlanRatcliffe
That's true Bob - the writeable CDs have a lifespan of +/- 10 years. Keep copies on your hard drive and if it ever happens, you can simply write another disk. I'm listening to my music on a PC anyway (with a good soundcard and my studio monitors), and most things I am likely to use for music reproduction accept mp3s - car CD player, DVD player, MP3 player, etc.. To be honest, I still buy CDs, but the first thing I do is convert them to MP3. Yes, there is a slight loss in sound quality with mp3 in comparison to CD, but the convenience far outweighs that.
However, as with any computer based data you can back up to any storage format - CD, DVD, hard drive, tape backups. Any serious computer user will tell you that backing up in some or other format is essential, as so much of our lives are contained in bits and bytes these days that the loss of data is usually a serious thing. Many will advise you to back up in multiple formats. Get into the habit of backing up your data regularly, then if the unthinkable happens (computer theft, virus, crashed hard drive, etc.), you lose nothing.
I have a network here and one machine is dedicated to backups of documents, music, video and programs, all our other machines back up automatically to this machine. This machine in turn backs itself up to tape automatically every night. I used to be lax about it, but one hard drive crash and the loss of five years' of documents and music and I learned my lesson. An IT pro friend of mine takes it one step further - he has a few backup tapes which he rotates. He keeps one at work, one in his briefcase and one at home, rotating daily.
Neps
The CD's I write at home normaly last about 2 years.. So if I want something to last I just pop it onto DAT tape.. yip, Im a loser :-[
But mp3 that I buy over the net ends up on a number of Hard drives.. And then to you have to look at hard drives lifespan. But it normaly goes this route..
1. Tape (Digital/Analog) 10 - 15 years.. But it depends on storage..
2. Hard drives 7 years Max
3. DVD's/ CD's - 5 years
These are the guide lines that I got for storage from a couple of places that are tendering for a storage system at our facility. And even tough my HD's don't move, we have to replace them every 5 years due to drive failure, FW ports bumming out.
Bob-Dubery
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
That's true Bob - the writeable CDs have a lifespan of +/- 10 years. Keep copies on your hard drive and if it ever happens, you can simply write another disk. I'm listening to my music on a PC anyway (with a good soundcard and my studio monitors), and most things I am likely to use for music reproduction accept mp3s - car CD player, DVD player, MP3 player, etc.. To be honest, I still buy CDs, but the first thing I do is convert them to MP3. Yes, there is a slight loss in sound quality with mp3 in comparison to CD, but the convenience far outweighs that.
I like MP3s because I have CD player in my car that can play them - which saves on the number of CDs I have flying around and lying around when I'm commuting.
I've never bought a "digital album" before. In this particular case I have an extra concern because this is a new album by the one artist whose work I collect assiduously (and which has it's own, dedicated shelf in my study and I hope this doesn't keep him up at nights), so I would want this album (in whatever form I eventually get it) to last many years.
What about those discs that you can buy that are specially for music? Is that just a con or is there a real distinction? And how long does a "real" CD last anyway?
Neps
Well, I buy only Sony CD's and they last a reasonable time.. But I tend not to be too carefull with them.. The 'audio' cd's are actualy the same as normal ones.. The dye (sorry, i cant spell) inside though is of a better quality.. But you still have to burn and its not 'pressed' as the commercial CDs you buy.
I've got a 'normal' CD (my 1st one ever.. U2 POP from 1997 and it still playes well.. But CD's I buy I always copy and keep the origionals safe. My dads 1st move into digital was Joshua Tree in 1995 and that still plays like new. But then again.. His Vynals look like it was bought yesterday.. And Stones still sounds good on them!
Squonk
I noticed in the UK, that you can buy CD's for various formats. The Format for music was slightly more expensive. Most of the people that I interrogated could not declare that the music format CD's were any better than the normal CD's.
How does the licensing on downloaded digital albums work? If the MP3 police had to knock on your door, could you prove that you legally acquired these files? ???
FatBoy
I actually think the CD is a crappy medium, the things scratch and get screwed up way too easily. I think something like a flash memory card will be way cooler
AlanRatcliffe
Fritz Brand wrote:
I actually think the CD is a crappy medium, the things scratch and get screwed up way too easily.
That tells me you weren't buying music when vinyl and tape were the only options. ?
FatBoy
Nope, but just the fact that it is better than some of the older mediums (I still prefer vinyl though) does not make it the most viable option.
Bob-Dubery
Squonk wrote:
How does the licensing on downloaded digital albums work? If the MP3 police had to knock on your door, could you prove that you legally acquired these files? ???
It would be incumbent on them to prove that you haven't.
AlanRatcliffe
They can prove you have downloaded or uploaded stuff just by tracking IP addresses. RIAA tactics have been more underhanded than that I'm afraid. They threaten huge lawsuits and get people to settle out of court as to defend the charges would cost them tens of thousands in legal fees. They don't have to win against you, they just have to keep you in court until your money runs out, you settle, and then you declare bankruptcy. They are however, going more for uploaders than downloaders.
Ultimately, the record companies must realize that suing your customers is probably not an ideal business idea. They should rather be doing more to educate people as to why downloading isn't something they should be doing and the repercussions of it on the artists themselves. Personally, I try and support the artists themselves directly where possible.
<rant> Quite honestly, if they had tackled the downloading issue when it first popped up, instead of having a knee-jerk reaction (and rejection) to the Internet in general, they would be in a better position now. Also, for years they have been ripping people off with the price of CDs, concentrating on throwaway music and albums with one single and nine filler tracks, treated their artists badly and generally done everything to make money hand over fist. It's not surprising that they are facing the backlash they are now, where the general public see them as the "bad guy" and thinks nothing of ripping them off - after all, they set the standard. </rant>
Riaan-Combrink
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Fritz Brand wrote:
I actually think the CD is a crappy medium, the things scratch and get screwed up way too easily.
That tells me you weren't buying music when vinyl and tape were the only options. ?
Lol! An irritating thing has happened to me. My vinyl copy of Spandau Balllet's
True [ :-[ hey, it was the 80s!] had a scratch and jump just before the middle eight, but it was sort of 'in time' and probably skipped exactly two bars. I bought the CD the other day, and I'm just freaked out. I cannot listen to that track at all, 'cause I keep on expecting the jump at that point. When it doesn't happen, it feels like the track's out of synch, so it's just blown my equilibrium.
More seriously, the first CD I bought was a German pressed (Biem-Stiemra) disc of Van Morrison's
Beautiful Vision. This was 1990. Still plays beautifully. But I treat them carefully. As a rule, I also back all my CDs up to MP3 for car use, etc.
@ Bob: if you do this, download one of the small mp3 writers that actually search the internet for the track info. As it burns your mp3, it'll add all the artist, album, track info etc automatically. One of my biggest pains used to be editing
track 4, unknown artist a couple of dozen times a week.
@ Alan: rant fully endorsed!! With my favourite local artists, will always buy their CDs at their gigs, festivals etc.
Riaan
That tells me you weren't buying music when vinyl and tape were the only options.
That suddenly made me realise: when last did any of you see a bundle of looped out tape draped over some farmer's fence whilst driving long distance? It used to be a common site when everyone listened to tapes in the car... my earlier cars invariably had cheap and nasty tape players, and a slight change in pitch usually warned that something bad was happening to your tape...good ear training that was! If you weren't quick enough, the whole tape got looped out!
Lol! An irritating thing has happened to me. My vinyl copy of Spandau Balllet's True [ hey, it was the 80s!] had a scratch and jump just before the middle eight, but it was sort of 'in time' and probably skipped exactly two bars
LOL yes, the same thing happened to me with the first Dire Straits album - that was my very first LP and "Six blade knife" had a scratch which made it jump. To this day when I listen to the CD, I get uneasy whenever the song gets there... ?...I still hear that in my mind!
My prediction is also that flash memory will take over some time...as far as I know it's very reliable and stable, I've even heard of flash disks that got washed with clothes and still worked.
Squonk
@ Riaan
What a good song "Six Blade Knife", I remember when I first got the Album, I liked that track first. Maybe just the groove in it. Pity yours had a scratch, ruined it for you forever ?
Riaan
One of my all time favourites still, that song. Also one of the first CD's I hunted down to replace the LP which had gotten lost along with all my old LP's over the years... ☹....my entire music collection now is on hard disk, and backed up to two other hard disks (I also learned that lesson the hard way!) along with albums I bought online and downloaded. I can't remember when last I took a CD out the cupboard to play!
Interestingly though somewhat off topic: We went searching for a small portable CD player ("walkman" type) for our 4 year old a week ago - she really likes her music. Couldn't find one anywhere, and eventually the guy at the hi-fi shop told me that the iPods had taken over that market entirely, they're not even made anymore. Also, kids don't want to just listen to CD's anymore, they want to watch DVD's. So we got her a portable DVD player instead...perhaps a bit excessive for a four year old, but so far she's looking after it very well and is mastering the controls surprisingly well.
As far as I remember I didn't even own a wristwatch when I was four...different times!
Squonk
@ Riaan
I had the same problem with my 11 year old Daughter, she wanted something that could play video as well. Ended up getting one of those JNC versions of the iPod, she is a bit scatterbrained so I didn't want to fork out Thousands for the Apple, in case it went missing at school or even in her room!
What a brilliant little device - FM radio, games, e-books, video, pictures and it can even play MP3's and it comes in pink!
One thing what do you guys use to make MP3's and what bit rate do you use? I have mad so many over the years and now would like to get some software to manage my collection. I have and old version of Helium music manager but it looks as complex as recording software. ?
Riaan
One thing what do you guys use to make MP3's and what bit rate do you use?
I'm actually busy with my music collection at this very moment! I started off with Windows Media Player and had everything in .wma format then. Then I got a Sony Walkman, which at the time used it's own format called .aac. After that experience I'll never buy a Sony again...they have this obsessiveness about their own formats and things which only works on Sony. Then I got an iPod and went the .m4a route.
Now I'm making copies of all the .m4a files and converting them to .mp3. I use the highest bitrate the software allows me to do, like 320. I've heard some imperfections on the iPod with low bitrate files, especially high frequencies like cymbals.
As far as software is concerned, I like iTunes, as I found it very easy to use and to manage playlists. I also have Nero 9, which to my ears have better sound quality, but I find it less user friendly to work with in terms of playlists etc.
Riaan-Combrink
Squonk wrote:
One thing what do you guys use to make MP3's and what bit rate do you use? I have mad so many over the years and now would like to get some software to manage my collection. I have and old version of Helium music manager but it looks as complex as recording software. ?
I've tried stacks, and I'm not one of those software junkies that like to have a 1000 apps for everything. Settled on
Freerip. Easy interface, automatically gets all song details from internet and encodes it into your mp3s etc. IMHO, brilliant for what I need. Download link here, if you want to check it out:
http://www.freerip.com/download.php?lang=en
Bitrate - absolute minimum should be 128kpbs. I usually go higher - 192, 240 even 320kpbs. Still leaves you with a mp3 size of 3 or 4 mb, so well worth it to go higher. Remember that lower bitrate simply means more compression and thus more loss of fidelity.
For management, I use the windows version of
I-Tunes. Just love the way it works. Intuitive and great layout. These days the latest versions of
Winamp and
Media Player are all more or less the same - they organise your videos as well. But for straight music (as I use it on stage as well) I'm comfortable with
I-Tunes.
If you want to check it out:
http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/
AlanRatcliffe
Ummm. Sony Sound Forge 9 for ripping and encoding - a bit cumbersome, but good quality results. Lame encoder codec.
At least 192K constant bitrate (that's the lowest I can in all conscience go) if it's for the web. 320K constant bitrate only for my own use.
inflames
Hi all,
I always used musicmatch jukebox for playing music and keeping my music organized.
About 2 years ago I discovered Media Monkey www.mediamonkey.com
Amazing software. I use the following setup:
Artist : Album
I will never go back to Musicmatch ?
When it comes to Linux I use Amarok. If you are running Linux nothing will come close to Amarok for keeping your music organized.
_-L-_
