Byron
Hi there
Now keep in mind that my knowledge of guitar theory sucks big time. So, I wanted to know how you guys go about learning solo parts in songs. If I knew more guitar theory would it help to learn a solo properly? Basically for me its opening up guitar pro and swatting tabs until i remember which frets to press and then muscle memory takes over a bit.
So far the only solo I can do fully is Led Zeplin's Whole Lotta Love. I learned the Judas Priest- Burn in Hell solo although I can't play it as fast as Downing but whatever. I guess I kinda get over learning the solo parts and just do the rhythm, even then I just get over the song and move onto another one.
Does anyone else learn them the same way as I do?
Thanks
Keira-WitherKay
hello, if you just starting out playing guitar ... find a tutor and learn some basic theory, and i don't mean how to read music just how to understand music and how it works.... and how chords and keys and scales are built.....
it's dead easy, western music is only 12 notes that repeat themselves in different octaves.......
and if you learn a few formulae of how chords are constructed and scales, you can crack it and it will free you from having to learn like a parrot.... unless you in a show band there's no need to ever copy a solo.... play your own in a similar style....
good luck
ps. find a tutor who plays and understands the style you want to play....
keira
Manfred-Klose
I still use Guitar Pro sometimes, it is a handy tool and saves a lot of time, but not always the correct way, that is why you need to keep an open mind when learning from GP.
I would also recommend learning music theory, when you understand how it works, its easier to tab a solo, and understand what is going on underneath the notes you are playing, and alot easier to write songs.
AlanRatcliffe
unless you in a show band there's no need to ever copy a solo.... play your own in a similar style....
Listen to the woman Byron - she knows wherof she speaks. ? Aside from my early cover band days (in an era when the music we were covering had few solos anyway), I've avoided learning solos note-for-note as much as possible and it's made me a more unique player (IMO). Occasionally something comes along with a new technique that I want to get the feel of, then I'll spend some time on it, but I'll rarely try cop the whole thing.
doc-phil
Byron wrote
Basically for me its opening up guitar pro and swatting tabs until i remember which frets to press and then muscle memory takes over a bit.
I do exactly the same thing and over the last few months i've realised its severely limiting my playing.. apart from your basic theory and trying to explore a few modes i know virtually zero theory.. i just cant bring myself to sit down and learn theory, its so boring!! The 'theory' i do know has mostly been gleaned off GP ?
However i know i should get stuck into theory because it would improve my playing dramatically i would imagine.
Keira-WitherKay
hey Doc phil, next time you in jhb give me a shout .... theory is not boring ....we can debate that but the point is you only need to learn a few pages ...literally 2 pages to have a grasp on musical structure..... and no that won't allow you to read or understand jazz reharmonisation or chord substitution... but you don't need that unless you a jazz/classical musician... and then you would be thriving on theory hehehehh ....
so yeah it's not hard ... think about it if my 12 year old students can grasp basic theory in a few lessons how hard can it be ....
i think theory is just a word most musicians are scared of but find a good tutor and get to learn the basic's it is invaluable.... i have a student from this forum who in 2 lessons has learned to play solo's all over the neck and the note choice is all his.... and no parrot fashion learning .....and only after about 2 lessons of theory ..then a lesson or two in note choice and technique...which we will continue to study for a while..... so yes he will need to get his chops up over the next months... but even if the solo's are not 100% smooth and polished yet ...he already know knows enough to create his own solo's and thats an excellent start .... and the amazing thing is he has some nice chops right from the start very encouraging.
so find a tutor and learn some theory ....
peace and light
Keira
Squonk
this sounds good Keira.
I can only play a pentatonic scale, and it's a bit limiting, it's also frustrating not knowing what I am doing half the time. Playing by ear has it's benefits but it would be good to know what I am doing at the same time.
One of these days I will take you up on some lessons.
Riaan
I can play a pentatonic scale, and it's a bit limiting, it's also frustrating not knowing what I am doing half the time. Playing by ear has it's benefits but it would be good to know what I am doing at the same time.
How true! Sounds exactly like me. What I found recently however, is that the combination of Sonar with all it's plugins and my MIDI keyboard helped me understand a few things that I just couldn't be bothered to figure out the "academic" way in the past. For example, I was always just too damn lazy to go and sit down and figure out things like 6/8 time, for instance. Hearing what it sounds like when using sonar with a drum loop, and seeing the music notation it creates, made the penny drop instantly. There are many examples like that.
So in my opinion, the modern PC based setups available to most of us nowadays makes it a bit easier to master basic theory that otherwise would have been too boring to study the "academic" way. So in this sense, I also discovered that it's actually not boring at all, it can be quite fun.
Heath
my biggest problem is applying the theory , i have a very basic understanding of chord formula and scales , but how it applys to the guitar is another story .......
think its time for lessons again
Wizard
I think the word 'theory' may be scaring everyone off as this implies a deep cognitive understanding.
I think it's more about learning some practical systems, without even knowing why they work.
For example, if you're going to play the piano in C ... then:
"play whatever you like, but only touch the white notes"
Similarly, you can learning which frets on which strings constitute a particular scale ... and you have limited notes that you can play with.
Then some more little rules one can learn from composition:
- treat the start of the scale as 'home' ... start there and end there
- treat the note above the bottom as a 'lead down'
- treat the note before the top as a 'lead up'
etc ...
This forum is the ideal place to publish some of these systems - most people seem terrified to have to go and 'learn music theory'
Goose-ZA
I've only just started diving into theory (after nearly 15 years of playing guitar) and I find it absolutely fascinating! I almost can't stop myself reading up on it.
One thing I have realised though, is that it's better to take it slow and get a good handle on a few things at a time, rather than learn everything and never practice applying it.
Renesongs
Learning Solos is a great way to improve your style and build up an arsenal of licks. Guitar tabs are, however, not a good way to go because tabs are notoriously inaccurate, particularly when it comes to efficient fingering. It is best to work things out by ear and use that tab as a rough guide if you have to. Learning theory is a great aid to learning solos and for growing your own solos. After all, the guitarist that you trying to copy based the solo on the theory he/she knowns best. In a nut shell learning a scale is learning an efficient way to finger a group of notes in a particular range of a key. Playing scales unaccompanied is a finger warm up exercise and can be tedious after a few minutes. Playing scales to a backing is improvisation. ?
[deleted]
Ignore this if it's just going to complicate things for you, but what makes scales and chords so beautiful is that they are actualy a language. Writing a song is telling a story. To put it into context, if you basicaly can understand when things are developing or coming to a close you're pretty much sorted.
nick_D01
word all
just a thought, but how many people dive straight into learning a solo without ever giving a thought to the backing/rhythm part going on underneath? is'nt that what the player hear's in the first place and then proceeds to lay their solo over the top. its not just a random collection of licks/notes but something that actually ties with the backing to present a cool as *&%@ musical statement.
i find it quite funny to think that somebody like kirk hammet blasts out some licks and then tells james hetfield- 'right there's the solo, you can do your backing part now!' ?
[deleted]
That's pretty much what I was saying. If you understand what is implied by the chord progression then you can translate that into the solo. Even with classical guitar I like to sort out the chord progression on the keyboard first so that I can get a feel for the song and make the most of the melody line.
Wizard
A solo is someone expressing themself, as a specific story, on top of the fabric of 'the song'.
The solo normally constrains itself to the structure of the song (scale, tempo, time signature etc), but can deviate away from these as a specific form of expression or to create specific tension.
e.g. the solo can play 3/4 time on top of a song in 4/4 time
but ... the soloist has to know their way back into the song again
Improvised solo's allow expression of the current mood of the person at the time, and express what the soloist wanted to 'say' at the time.
You probably find that what is now regarded as 'the solo' of a particular song was an improvisation at some point and subsequently got frozen as 'the solo' when the song became well known.
Byron
Thanks for the great feedback guys ?
Ye the one thing is that I haven't had a really good guitar teacher. I did start with lessons as soon as I got my first guitar. The first teacher was a gig player who seemed organized with his lessons and stuff but for some reason after the first lesson i could never get hold of this guy again?
The next guy also seemed a decent guitar teacher. I was there for about 2months or something, We were just covering basic theory and all that, and I always brought a file full of metal song tabs with me and this guy eventually told me that if I stayed he would be holding me back????? To be honest , I think the guy just said that because he didn't want to try and teach me metal as he was all blues and classical ( he could have just forced me to play blues tho ? )
He then recommended me to this other guy who was a great guitar player but not a great teacher. He was all metal and knew how to play all these rad songs but he didn't have any sort of schedule for a lesson .ever.
This time I'm going to Barry Ford ( From Durban) hes expensive but worth it although hes so packed with students I can't get in atm.
Hmmmmm how did I get onto that? XD
I basically got taught fragments of theory here and there which I have had to piece together yet it still dosn't give me a basic understanding of t3h Gu1taR W0rLd
doc-phil
Keira WitherKay wrote
i think theory is just a word most musicians are scared of but find a good tutor and get to learn the basic's it is invaluable....
I completely agree, i am scared of learning theory :-[ i've had abt 2 guitar lessons in my 4 years of playing, and whenever i get the guts to start doing some theory on my own i think... where the heck do i start!!??
Hopefully i'l find somebody soon who can help me out in the theory department ?
Gearhead
Well I went to Keira to have somebody confront me with what I need to learn and what I need to improve on. She does sound more enthusiastic than I would be about my progress, but that's another role of the teacher: encouragement. Even if it's through the forum :-[
Ray
Well, as I explained in Dec/Jan, I just hit the modlife crisis and strated buying guitars and things. I also decided to do things properly. Well, properly the way I see it. I am classically trained but in other instruments. So there is some recollection of theory. When I read the books it makes sense and there is the "I have been here before" feeling. You see, there are lots of self taught, non-music-reading guitarists that are plenty famous and they sound really good. But when I listen to them, it just sems to me that at some stage they loose their way and bugger around a bit until it auto slots into place again. That's just what I think though and I am not going to mention any names because I'll probably get hunted down (although I think I could hide in the East rand minedumps for months without being found). I also went out and bought a whole bunch of books. Not a waste of money but when you are holding down a job, and have quite a few other extra-murals on the go, it is all to easy to pick up the instrument and tinkle around for a while before putting it down again. And that is why I think I will get a teacher to intimidate me for a few months until I get the routine of learning the theory and exercises in place. That is something I remember when I was still playing cello; hours and hours of scales, arpegios and damned exercises. But they work. That is what I like about Guitar Techniques mag. The columns are more or less presented in exercise format.
