Which classical?

Lood

I'm in the market for a classical guitar and have narrowed my search down to a Cort CEC7 or a Yamaha APX 5NA.
I tend to lean more towards a spruce top but most importantly I need the narrower 45mm neck, which both these guitars have. So, leaving price out of the decision, which is the better guitar and are there any other makes I should take a look at?
I'd appreciate any advice.

inflames

I know nothing about clasical guitars, but when it comes to steel string accoustic guitars I trust Cort.

nick_D01

hi lood ?

you a classical player? or you use the nylon string for fingerstyle?

Squonk

Go for the Yamaha. Cort are known for acoustic and electrics.
Play both to see which is better.

Lood

nick_D01 wrote: hi lood ?

you a classical player? or you use the nylon string for fingerstyle?

I play a bit of everything, acoustic and electric guitar, keyboard, accordion, etc. I recently met a guy that is a magnificent (my opinion) classic guitar player. After listening to him a couple of times, I decided to give it a try and although quite difficult, I enjoy the classical stuff a lot. He agreed to teach me so it's basically starting from scratch and it is fingerstyle - Bach, et al.
He uses an older Ibanez Talman to practice but has a handmade concert guitar - in a totally different class.
I'm looking at paying around R5k and a pickup is not really nesecary - I just can't find a narrow neck without a pickup.

AlanRatcliffe

I'm well known for liking Corts, but one thing they don't do well is nylon string guitars - their idea of using a shallow but large body doesn't work very well as an acoustic instrument. Yamaha do know how to make nylons. I haven't played a newer APX, but I'd still say get the APX. Until you go into the +R10K price bracket, you don't get really nice nylons, IMO, so maybe get the APX and see if you take to it.

The electric classics are completely different animals though. Not only do they have a narrower and a thinner neck, but they usually have a radiused fingerboard, which is nicer for chording. If you think that you may want to take up classical properly, do NOT get one of these guitars, but rather get a proper classical instrument.

inflames

I'm well known for liking Corts, but one thing they don't do well is nylon string guitars

Intresting fact indeed, thanks Alan.

Keira-WitherKay

hello , yeah i agree with alan ... for nylon definitely yamaha in the cheaper range..... i am a pro musician and i exclusively play a nylon string for world music and flamenco and favour my Yamaha CGX concert classical...with a cutaway and b band pick up over most classicals i have heard even the cheaper handmade ones...like the student ramirez..... which sells for R17000 so yamaha make good instruments.....although i would treasure a ramirez concert guitar they drip with tone.....

it's all in the E string if the top E has a round natural almost gut sound you buy the guitar ...... if it has the slightest bit of treble twang avoid it..... this rule definitely works.... if you a steel string player you will be used to a twangy top end... a good nylon has no extreme tops to the high E and a rounded sound....

and if i was you i would not stress over the wider neck.... if a pick up is not essential... you can get a better guitar by buying one for same money that is sans pick up .... and look 2nd hand..... some gems in the nylon market out there as everybody knows what electric or steel string to look for but how many can name the good classicals.... or flamenco makes.... i recently saw a Takamine nylon with pickup and their custom preampwith built in tuner in a pawn shop for R3000 a steal..... and with a hard shell case... lol not even a ramirez for R25 000 comes with a case ..... so look at pawn shops as i said they ussually don't know value of nylons....

but after all that you can't go wrong wth the APX it's a good guitar and aimed at exactly what you want... a nylon that is 'electric" player friendly ..... although my true advise would be to buy a good pickup less nylon with a standard neck... you will get used to it quickly ..... and that width gives you space to play some wicked chord inversions and will make fingerstyle playing so much easier.... also if you actually like nylon....(i used to be a steel string player till i discovered nylon) and ever want a better nylon you will be used to the neck....
co most really nice nylons will have a wider flat neck.... which once you get used to will make playing on an electric feel like you over cramped..... watch paco de lucia and see the speed and accuracy he gets on a wide neck.... so it definitely does not restrict ones style....

yeah let us know what you decide on....

peace and light
Keira

Lood

Thanks a lot to all for your replies and good advice. Very interresting - it makes perfect sense that a guitar less the pickup for the same price would be a much better guitar. Regarding the neck, I struggle to get a clean sound when barring the strings as my fingers are a bit short. So I thought that a thinner neck would help with this because on my steel string and electric, barre chords are easier and clearer.
I'm sure that it is also a question of practising it untill it works.
So if I changed the rules to a straight forward nylon string without a pickup and a standard size neck, what would R5k buy?
Oh, I will of course also follow the advice to play as many guitars as possible before I make a final decision.

Squonk

Guitar Forum SA > Guitar > Gear > Topic: Cort Nylon Guitar or equivalent guitar

Try this thread, which I asked the same question. There is a lekker looking Ibanez as well as some tanglewoods to try as well.

Keira-WitherKay

hey lood , as for your barre chord problem.... the wider neck can make it easier cos the string tension is less on nylon... and also there is a simple technique to improve the barre finger ..... if you ever pop into one of my gigs or in jhb i'll gladly show you ...... i have 12 yr old students playing barre chords cleanly so size of hand means nothing ...... it's all shape and technique / wrist angle ect ect......

just get the action set up... on any nylon you buy and don't settle for a shop setup.... since traditionally i have found most shops don't know much about nylon set ups unless they a specialised classical/flamenco store and most try and say that a nylon needs the traditional high action they used back in the 1800's but technology of build ect has changed through centries and my nylon i gig with has as flat an action as an electric that was set up years ago by an italian luthier and i DON'T buzz one just needs to develop a good playing technique for nylon .....so don't take NO for an answer.... i not so long ago sought out a nylon for a student... and Marshall music did the set up for free on a guitar costing just over R1000 so just ask for it (it was a yamaha C45 an entry level student model.... but with the action set up ... i swear i could play a gig on it.... clearly not a top end guitar but a great feel and not bad sound and for R1000 ish maybe even consider such a cheapie to see if you gonna like playing nylon ... cos if you don't for a R1000 ish it's not a huge outlay ....

and yes someone mentioned tanglewood ... they also cheap and not bad.... but finding stock of their nylons is hard... i only ever see them once in a blue moon in stores.... but their steels are everywhere....

good luck

K

AlanRatcliffe

I don't know yet, but I may have something for you soon.

A lady phoned me earlier to do with getting rid of her late husband's musical gear and I'll be going to look at them on Saturday with a view to helping her sell them. Apparently he was a fairly serious classical player and has three decent ones - including a Yamaha concert model that apparently cost them a bundle about 15 years ago, so might be a real goodie. The other two are an old Epiphone and an Ibanez. If I can resist the urge to cherry pick for myself, that may be up for grabs (If not there'll be another nice Ibanez in it's place ?)

There is also a 79 key Roland (not Edirol) MIDI controller keyboard - sounds like it may be an A-30 or an A-33 (I have an A-33 and had an A-30 before it, and they are great).

The odd thing is, this woman phoned Bothners in Cape Town, who told her I have a site where she can sell this stuff and gave her my number. During the course of our conversation, it turned out she lives down the road from me! What are the chances of that happening in a small country town?

Lood

THanks Alan - sounds interresting. I'm looking forward to your reply on these...

Squonk

If Lood's not interested, let me know.
My Yamaha is kind of on it's last legs ?

FatBoy

And let me know bout that there keyboard please

AlanRatcliffe

OK guys, let me see exactly what is there and also just how nice they are. Then I'll scare up some fair but reasonable prices and let you guys know.

AlanRatcliffe

OK. Just had a look at the classic guitars and keyboard.

The Yamaha - a really nice example of Handmade Grand Concert GD20. Like this: http://stringsnthings.org/hsguitar/GD20.html
Perfect condition. I've played a couple of these before and this one is real nice, bold and loud with good balance. Nice bear claw in the Engelmann spruce top and complete with hard case. These last sold for R12K new and this is absolutely mint, so R6K. I'm seriously considering it myself...

The Ibanez, the owner has decided to keep for herself, but mine is a nice example of an Ibanez Andorra GA-100 (the older model, not the same as the new one) with a ridiculously easy action, Mahogany back, sides and neck and Tusq saddle and nut and D'Addario Pro Arte High tension strings for R1,000...

The Epiphone is from Kalamazoo days, but is a Japanese built guitar. It's a good guitar with solid cedar top and rosewood back and sides (might be solid, given the age, but couldn't tell), but has seen some serious play in it's time, with some wear in the top and a worn and checked finish (looks like French polish). At least one popped brace, but I'll fix that for you. R700.

Fritz - the MIDI controller is the 79 key Roland A-30. Complete with single-braced stand. MIDI cable and a DP6 foot pedal (the solid one that looks like a proper piano sustain pedal). No power supply though (normal 9V Roland/Boss ACA) - R2K

Keira-WitherKay

mmmm alan that epiphone sounds like the pawn shop specials i love so much..... pity i'm not in CT (damn i was there 2 weekends ago for 2 days ) or i woulda checked it out.... i love beat up old guitars ..... and if it has a natural sound for R700 i would snap it up..... any chance of sending me a pic....

those hand built yamaha's are not that great for the money .... i played on one a while back and it sounded no different to the production line ones CGX 171 i compared it ...and the store i was in in pta had it marked at about R17000 so R6000 is a damn good price.... but a CgX with a dual pickup system might be a better bet .... at also about R6000 brand new (thats with discount)

damn i'd love to see it too.... maybe this one sounds different as we know they all do ..... cos a killer price....

peace and light
Keira

AlanRatcliffe

The Epiphone is a C060, BTW. Nice guitar, but needs love and attention. Nice way for someone to get a good guitar cheaply.

I suspect the GD20 is worth more, but all I have to go on is the price when they were last available locally. At the time, they were kind of on a par with the Takamine Hirade H5 - the Tak H8 blew them away though. I have played GD20s when they were new and I found them a little soulless, but this one has aged really well - I'm quite impressed actually.

Wizard

I saw a classical guitar today in Bothners called a 'Guild'.
What are these like?