Rudolf
Hi Guys,
So most know I got the oldish '72 re-issue 80's MIJ Fender strat recently. I've been pondering alot of things on the guitar since and finally decided it was time to start a thread. It's been a this and that way question of whether to restore the guitar a little or leave it as is but my mind is still not made up completely. Last night I finally decided to rip off the strings and start cleaning it a little, as well as try to remove some of the rust on the bolts and things.
To start off this thread, when I snipped the strings the nut just simply fell apart. ☹ So first things first, I need help finding a replacement nut for this bad boy. I don't mind if it's not an original nut and would for instance definitely consider putting a Graphtec on while I'm at it. The local music store also offered to take the guitar for me to a guy that would build me a bone nut but that would mean I'm without the guit for who knows how long, don't like that option as I'd like to carry on with the cleaning etc. Anyone any ideas where to get a hold of a replacement nut?
Watch this space, much more questions and and to come. LOL
dee
Give Andries from the Fret Shop (at Musica Instruments in Atterbury) a call. He might be able to help. Tel: (012) 991 4930
Rudolf
Thanks Dee! Will check it out! Spoke to some rather strange people already, it's been an interesting affair thus far. LOL
Got put onto Andy Mcgibbons who is apparently the supplier for the Graphtec stuff for most folks, spoke to a guy there and got a few prices already. Looks like around R120 for a nut and out of curiosity I checked on saddles...eish R499. Might skip on the saddles me thinks, lol. I learned now I'll need to go study my broken nut though. ? There was a definite pause when I stated I would be fitting the nut myself to the guy, of course I just frowned on this side of the line. Went checking on the Graphtec site and discovered there's no magic "Yeah this one will almost fit your Fender" nut, time to go take some measurements and get those handy before I search any further. I'm not sure I just want to buy a block of whatever they make this stuff out of and have to fend for myself in getting it to look like a nut.
AlanRatcliffe
Replacement nuts should be properly fitted. The closest you will find with a stock nut is to buy a Fender-style nut with string grooves (just find out if your nut slot is curved or flat at the bottom). While it at least has the string grooves, it will probably be a little high without cutting, so your nut action will be high.
Rudolf
Hi Alan,
I saw graphtec on the site has different measurement nuts between the E strings as a guide to get the grooves in the ballpark, so I'll have to go get some measurements, would be a great help to get something with slots in the ballpark already. Not sure how to tackle the cutting slots part with the dremel as I don't think my engraving bit is even small enough. But I'll make a plan either way if needs be.
Luckily I quickly grabbed the pieces of the fallen nut and stuck em back together with a little thin CA to try and preserve the current shape. So at least I have a refference to work with when having to adjust the new nut. It should help me thinks.
Bob-Dubery
Rudolf wrote
Thanks Dee! Will check it out! Spoke to some rather strange people already, it's been an interesting affair thus far. LOL
Got put onto Andy Mcgibbons who is apparently the supplier for the Graphtec stuff for most folks, spoke to a guy there and got a few prices already. Looks like around R120 for a nut and out of curiosity I checked on saddles...eish R499. Might skip on the saddles me thinks, lol.
RE the nut - unless you know that you know what you are doing then don't fit it yourself.
The saddles might well be the special graphteq ones that are supposed to reduce string breakage etc. So get more details.
Would it not be a better idea to clean the guitar up as well as you can first and to take an inventory of what needs to be done whilst you're at it? It might work out cheaper to take it to a shop and say "new nut, spray out the electronics, set the action and intonation" rather than have several individual jobs done.
nick
post a pic or two so we know what you working on ?
AlanRatcliffe
Rudolf wrote
I saw graphtec on the site has different measurement nuts between the E strings as a guide to get the grooves in the ballpark, so I'll have to go get some measurements, would be a great help to get something with slots in the ballpark already.
That's it. Or go by the nut width - the string spacing follows naturally. The grooved ones are nice to use - I prefer them to blanks.
Not sure how to tackle the cutting slots part with the dremel as I don't think my engraving bit is even small enough. But I'll make a plan either way if needs be.
Hmm. Cutting implement going at 30,000 RPM + a nut = disaster. I still make mistakes with nut files, so the idea of doing it with a Dremel fills me with dread. Just say no. You can use key files (the miniature ones that come in a set) - the triangular one with the tapered round one can do the job. Take it slow. Also... buy two nuts for your first nut cutting job.
Luckily I quickly grabbed the pieces of the fallen nut and stuck em back together with a little thin CA to try and preserve the current shape. So at least I have a refference to work with when having to adjust the new nut. It should help me thinks.
You are a modeller, so I presume your CA is good quality? You can probably use the nut until you get a replacement - just file off the excess. If you need to fill voids use baking powder and the water-thin CA (avoid the fumes!) to build up a cement that sets instantly and is plenty hard enough.
Rudolf
Bob: I'll have to check on the saddles yes, not sure what the deal is. I'm in a jam however financially as I'm still not sure if our trip to the F3C World champs in the USA is going to become a reality, I'll probably know more next week. If it is then obviously money will become a rather precious commodity in my house, if not new saddles might be possible. As far as taking it to a shop? Definitely not, not before I nearly ran into a wall out of frustration because I can't get it right and that will take years. This guitar is my baby and they'll probably lay me to rest with this thing clutched in my paws. Besides, the only way to learn is to dive into the deepend properly. ?
Nick: I'm miserable the pics aren't available yet, last night I furiously starting snapping shots and then the darn batteries quit on me. Will definitely get something going tonight.
Alan: I'm more comfortable with a dremel in my hand than I am holding my GF of three years's hand. You can ask Nita, the house could be burning down and I'll be happy standing there as long as I got my dremel. Hehehe. Had it since 1995 and I'll use it to eat a steak if I could. There was a nice looking set of modeling files in the Hobby shop though I've been eyeballing, maybe a good excuse to take em home now? ?
I'm afraid the old nut is worthless, I solved the mystery of the broken nut last night no questions asked. The neck's groove is in fact curved, the old nut....not so. Guess I don't need to elaborate any further. LOL I dunno where it all went wrong but when it's resting in the groove there's about a 2mm gap on either ends. I have to create a new nut for this puppy.
Right onto general notes for my fellow noobs!
Do a little research before you even go to the shop when needing to get a nut replaced. It's crucial you figure out first what nut material would best suit your needs so you can properly tell the guy who will be working on your guitar what you need him to do. Don't let anyone convince you that you need a nut carved out of bone just because it's the best. It's in fact not in all scenarios. When I read some guys use brass and metal nuts I thought heck this is gonna be easy as metal as second nature to me, guess what brass and metal nuts don't neccesarily work well with floating bridge guitars as the strings tend to stick. Check it out properly and the info is not rocket science, it's freely available all over the internet. Nuts can be made out of almost anything from bone, ivory, wood, brass, aluminium, plastic, composites you name it. They'll all work at the end of the day but each definitely has their place and some could be considered a mere temporary solution which you do not want. As it turns out a graphite/composite style nut in my case is the best bling for my trem setup guitar as these style nuts have an advantage over bone whereas their density is more uniform and easier to control and they present the least friction on the strings for string bending and tremolo setups. So Graphtec it is for me.
Onto other things:
I proceeded with my cleaning efforts, ripped the tremolo out and did a few experiments on the platics etc with the cleaning materials I had in mind. Making good progress and finally now know how awfully crude these trem systems are. Hahaha. Amazing. I stopped there as I need to start working on pictures to get the guitar verified so I can hopefully get some replacement decals for the headstock from Fender before its too late. Anyways, when the pics are going I'll talk a little more. ?
AlanRatcliffe
Rudolf wrote
I'm more comfortable with a dremel in my hand than I am holding my GF of three years's hand. You can ask Nita, the house could be burning down and I'll be happy standing there as long as I got my dremel. Hehehe. Had it since 1995 and I'll use it to eat a steak if I could.
HA! The same one for 14 years? That's nothing! I'm on my fourth in twenty years, having completely worn out each of it's predecessors. Each will usually go through at least one set of each: bearings, shaft linkages and brushes before the motor finally surrenders and commits suicide (eastern maple is hard stuff). The most valuable tool I have and it gets used for everything from grinding and polishing to drilling and routing. Still, I have learned it can be a little bit of an overkill in some situations - and cutting a nut would definitely fall into that category.
There was a nice looking set of modeling files in the Hobby shop though I've been eyeballing, maybe a good excuse to take em home now? ?
Absolutely. I find there is always a tool needing an excuse to buy it.
Right onto general notes for my fellow noobs!
Good nut info that. Well done!
Making good progress and finally now know how awfully crude these trem systems are.
Simple and easy to manufacture maybe, but anything but crude. Lot of subtle design features in (a properly made) one of those.
Rudolf
14 years yes ? I take care of that thing like it's my child. The worst I've punished it though was working on aluminium and once I had to fiddle with stainless, I had to hold it and properly apologise afterwards. I'll have to see how stubborn these graphtec things are? When I read composite I immediatly thought it would fall into the catagory of the carbons I fiddle with and those things only compete with a dremel and the mean machine bits. Either way sounds like the file set needs to come home with me, I've been wanting a set for the odd job for a while now on the helis. Had a few situations now where the dremel proved cumbersome still.
I honestly thought the trem mechanism were full of little bolts, nuts and things all over the place to adjust them? This one's got nothing to it? Haha. Few springs, heavy block and a bunch of screws it swivels on. I was expecting much worse, took me all of 2 minutes to remove it completely and take it all apart.
AlanRatcliffe
Rudolf wrote
I'll have to see how stubborn these graphtec things are? When I read composite I immediatly thought it would fall into the catagory of the carbons I fiddle with and those things only compete with a dremel and the mean machine bits.
No Tusq is boron polytrinate (with a little Teflon fir slipperyness in the Black Tusq nuts) - it's hard wearing, but cuts far easier and quicker than bone.
I honestly thought the trem mechanism were full of little bolts, nuts and things all over the place to adjust them? This one's got nothing to it? Haha. Few springs, heavy block and a bunch of screws it swivels on.
That's the basics of it, yeah (although the trem pivots on the body rather than the screws - the screws merely stop it from pulling forward). Lots of subtle design features though, like the bevelled edge at the front of the plate to turn it into the fulcrum and the screw holes countersunk from underneath to prevent the bridge from binding on the screws (only found out about that one the other day from Mojo JoJoe - never too old to learn, eh?). For me the beauty of the design
is it's simplicity.
Rudolf
Hi Alan!
I'm getting more and more hope to win this nut thing by what you're saying. If it's softer than carbon I definitely look forward to working with. Hahaha. I need to head to the Hobby shop this afternoon to grab a new battery for the one helicopter then I'll try to get my paws on that set of files.
For me the beauty of the design is it's simplicity.
I'll definitely drink to that. They certainly didn't overcomplicate it which is something I'm always pro for. True brilliance is sometimes in the simplest of things like they say huh. ?
Sorry for not having pictures yet guys, I'm one of the lucky ones to use a Vodacom 3G internet connection at home and I don't think I need to explain further. Looks like I now need to re-install my home PC entirely. ARGH. I didn't do much last night though, just polished another bunch of screws and this takes roughly 10 minutes per screw so it's a tedious affair without much excitement.
Squonk
Switch to MTN
Is your vodacom slow or not working properly?
Has anyone tried Neotel?
Rudolf
Squonk: Vodacom's done something stupid (What's new huh? ? ) again on their connections so it's been a stuff up since Monday. Last night I read we need to update the software, easy without a connection right. Did that and now my windows has some sort of issue with that idea which I can't find a solution to other than re-installing. We'll see if I burn the thing over the weekend. Haha
Rudolf
Heeeeey everyone,
Sorry I've been a little on the quiet side. I stick with my original mention that I try to avoid posting on any forum if I'm not in a very good mood, things have been a little rough this side. As some know I'm a member of the SA F3C model helicopter aerobatics team again this season and we've decided to try and make the trip to the Worlds in the USA late July/August so things have been chaotic due to the fact that both me and my mechanic are a little financially crippled. I've been stuck working like a mad man to try and raise funds/organise the trip and practise while sorting the models. Unfortunately (Fortunately for me) there's been a rather sudden burst of interest in me as well after finally getting my first win at the F3C Nationals this year so there went more time. Hehehe. The past month I've built a heli, rebuilt another and now I'm working on a Cessna 310 twin (Big model also) for another guy to try and raise more funding, it suuuucks but seeing as I'm a little too much of the wrong skin colour there's no hope in this country of financial aid from the folks who can provide it. Anyways enough of the explenations. ?
I've finally gotten frustrated of having my strat in pieces taking up more space than it should also in the workshop. I've ordered a Graphtec nut and string tree set which is supposedly for the standard strat type guitar, it also measures to roughly what I had so I'm sure it'll be a walk in the park to fit. I payed R159 for the set from Andy Mcgibbons in johies and they said it would be mailed this coming Thursday, so hopefully next week I can get cracking on the guit again once the Cessna is done. I'll get some pics of what I'm doing goin in the meantime. ?
Rudolf
Heeeeeey y'all!
Got the nut last week Thursday, haven't gotten to posting as we had another heli competition the weekend. But the nut looks geeeeewd. Perfect match to the old one cept it's not curved, string spacing and everything looks good though so we're rocking. Shouldn't be too hard to get it fit. I am on the final legs of completing the model I'm working on so very hopefull to tackle the guitar real soon (If Murphy allows it).
FatBoy
Cool man, keep us posted!
Rudolf
Hallo allo folks,
Well ok finally the other priorities are somewhat taken care of, for the moment anyways, so last night I got the strat on the workbench again.
I'm still busy cleaning up the metal bits, polishing some of the rust off and that sort of thing. Cleaning whatever I can. I've last night taken the scratchplate off and there's ALOT of work to be done as far as cleaning and such is concerned I'm afraid, so nothing of much interest to share. I will of course if I can make good progress tonight on cleaning consider installing the new pickup in the bridge.
I'm done with the trem and the back cover as far as polishing and cleaning goes on all the screws and metal bits. Looks goooood again, shiny but distinctive vintage worn out look still. ?
Here's some pics to show what we're working on. No cleaning done yet other than the body being wiped down. First batch:
Rudolf
