ESP LTD M-10 Project

Lu22

So in light of all the awesome customization on the forum I've decided to do some of my own.

My ESP LTD M-10 is fun guitar, but I wanna spice it up a bit.
I was originally only gonna paint it, but now I'm considering upgrading the electrics a bit while I'm at it.
It currently has the stock ESP LH-100 humbucker pups, but they don't sound too great.

So here are my questions:
> What pickups should I look at? (preferably ones that won't break the bank)
> Will I be able to install them myself? (I know the basics of electronics and have a technician I can call if need be)

I mainly play clean or with the Black Panel/Classic effects modules on my Roland Cube 40XL if that influences the type of pups I should put in.

Thanks

Hasie

The following might help you get started on the pickups.
http://www.seymourduncan.com/pickup-selector-step-1

You can also measure the DC resistance of the pickups you currently have to get an indication of their output.

V8

Lu22 wrote: So here are my questions:
> What pickups should I look at? (preferably ones that won't break the bank)
> Will I be able to install them myself? (I know the basics of electronics and have a technician I can call if need be)

I mainly play clean or with the Black Panel/Classic effects modules on my Roland Cube 40XL if that influences the type of pups I should put in.

You've opened a can 'o worms... ?

My world changed when I got into single coil designs - cleans have a certain clarity and bite that I prefer. Break up/dirty sounds also work well for single coils, though they can suffer from the 60hz noise when driven too hard.

Alan used to refer to humbuckers as 'mudbuckers' - after reading the word...I thought "how apt" ?

But temper that thought with lapdawg opinion that lower output humbuckers (4-6k) have a clarity that the high gain stuff that contemporary players seem to like (metal/rock) doesn't have. The high gain pups only seem to come to life in a with a lot of gain (drive/distortion/etc).

My 0.002c : For cleans->dirty : single coils, P-90's or even filtertron's might be a option. For dirty->higher gain : PAF's or lower output humbuckers. For high gain : high gain humbuckers (Dimarzio Pegasus/Nazgul, Tonerider Generators, etc...).

While coil tapping humhuckers is an option, it usually doesn't compare to a stock single coil - even a cheap ceramic single sounds better to my ears.

What would I do? I'm thinking filtertron's at the moment, I've played a few gretsch's and I'm generally really happy with the feel of clean->dirt sounds on them.The TV jones pups are really nice, but a bit too sensitive/dynamic for my heavy hands (aside from pricey). I'd like to try a set of fidelitrons from the fender carbonita's - maybe someone will dump a set so I can pop them in something and see if it's a option.

Hopefully a P-90 and filtertron enthusiast can weigh in (Singemonkey/Norman?)

Lu22

Meron Rigas wrote: You've opened a can 'o worms... Wink

Isn't that the point of the forum hehe.

Well I nevere add too much overdrive to my sound (except when I switch to the MetalZone module just to be a tool), so I have no problem with single coils. My only worry is that the guitar body only has slots for a pair of hummers. Would I have to get a plate to cover the gap left by the singles?

peterleroux

Lu22 wrote:
Meron Rigas wrote: You've opened a can 'o worms... Wink
Isn't that the point of the forum hehe.

Well I nevere add too much overdrive to my sound (except when I switch to the MetalZone module just to be a tool), so I have no problem with single coils. My only worry is that the guitar body only has slots for a pair of hummers. Would I have to get a plate to cover the gap left by the singles?

Such plates are available, as well as single coils in humbucker casings. Guitarfetish has loads of 'wierd' pickups- P90s in HB cases, HBs in P90 cases, Lipsticks in fender sizing, single coil gold foils in HB sizes etc. so it's a good place to look.

Lu22

peterleroux wrote: Such plates are available, as well as single coils in humbucker casings. Guitarfetish has loads of 'wierd' pickups- P90s in HB cases, HBs in P90 cases, Lipsticks in fender sizing, single coil gold foils in HB sizes etc. so it's a good place to look.

Cool will take a look thanks.

V8

peterleroux wrote:
Lu22 wrote:
Meron Rigas wrote: You've opened a can 'o worms... Wink
Isn't that the point of the forum hehe.

Well I nevere add too much overdrive to my sound (except when I switch to the MetalZone module just to be a tool), so I have no problem with single coils. My only worry is that the guitar body only has slots for a pair of hummers. Would I have to get a plate to cover the gap left by the singles?
Such plates are available, as well as single coils in humbucker casings. Guitarfetish has loads of 'wierd' pickups- P90s in HB cases, HBs in P90 cases, Lipsticks in fender sizing, single coil gold foils in HB sizes etc. so it's a good place to look.

Haha, well I try to assist in addressing causes of GAS not causing them :?

Peter's spot on - plates exist as well as different formats of pups in various casings. There was a set of plates (HB->SC) at the gear junkie, not sure if they are still around - I'll have a look. It is something you can make yourself (or get 3D printed). Wizard would make them out of wood, and they would be gorgeous!

Was thinking you should really try out a P90 guitar before deciding, who knows, maybe that's the sound you are looking for. I suspect my mate who is also going through a SC phase, will like P90's more. He's a oldskool humbucker fan and is just now realising the goodness of all things single coil :?

Lu22

Meron Rigas wrote: Haha, well I try to assist in addressing causes of GAS not causing them :?

Peter's spot on - plates exist as well as different formats of pups in various casings. There was a set of plates (HB->SC) at the gear junkie, not sure if they are still around - I'll have a look. It is something you can make yourself (or get 3D printed). Wizard would make them out of wood, and they would be gorgeous!

Was thinking you should really try out a P90 guitar before deciding, who knows, maybe that's the sound you are looking for. I suspect my mate who is also going through a SC phase, will like P90's more. He's a oldskool humbucker fan and is just now realising the goodness of all things single coil :?

My dad has some sleeperwood vernier lying around that could make beautiful pup plates if I can get him to part with it. As far as single coils go I'm sold (Hasie's Ibanez had coil tapped Seymore's with a brilliant sound and his Strat - well its a Strat).

Now for the hard part. Where should I order from? Not keen on importing, and I'm a total noob when it comes to this stuff, so I don't want to cheap out and buy crummy pups. Don't see anything on the Gear junkie site unfortunately.

V8

Lu22 wrote:
Meron Rigas wrote: Haha, well I try to assist in addressing causes of GAS not causing them :?

Peter's spot on - plates exist as well as different formats of pups in various casings. There was a set of plates (HB->SC) at the gear junkie, not sure if they are still around - I'll have a look. It is something you can make yourself (or get 3D printed). Wizard would make them out of wood, and they would be gorgeous!

Was thinking you should really try out a P90 guitar before deciding, who knows, maybe that's the sound you are looking for. I suspect my mate who is also going through a SC phase, will like P90's more. He's a oldskool humbucker fan and is just now realising the goodness of all things single coil :?
My dad has some sleeperwood vernier lying around that could make beautiful pup plates if I can get him to part with it. As far as single coils go I'm sold (Hasie's Ibanez had coil tapped Seymore's with a brilliant sound and his Strat - well its a Strat).

Now for the hard part. Where should I order from? Not keen on importing, and I'm a total noob when it comes to this stuff, so I don't want to cheap out and buy crummy pups. Don't see anything on the Gear junkie site unfortunately.

Not much at the GJ at the moment - just sets of squire bullet pups (ceramic magnets). Better than the stuff you'd find in Ibby Gio's, but that's about it.

I've a few pups I'm gonna put up for sale soon, but they are the Dimarzio Fast-track style SC's - not a classic strat sound. Patience is key...look for some Alinco magneted pups and take it from there. Strat-talk and Tdpri are great places to check out what people think of the various pups.

1st place would be a set of Tonerider SC's (City Limits), but peeps tend to hang onto to them. An alternative I did look at was the Squire Classic Vibe SC's (Apparently Tonerider Surfari clones). They can be sourced at around R535/ea (last I checked).

Lu22

Thanks. I'll keep an eye on SA Music Store and Revolution too

Hasie

Maybe we should do a Saturday morning trip to TOMS, Music Connection, Burger King and Krispy Kreme. And play something with P-90's and what not. It sounds like it is a tone I might also like a lot...
And once you know what you want, we can maybe do a combined import package from whichever shop wherever.

Lu22

Meron Rigas wrote: I've a few pups I'm gonna put up for sale soon, but they are the Dimarzio Fast-track style SC's - not a classic strat sound.

So I checked out a few videos comparing the fast tracks with that standard strat'ss and I quite like the fast track's sound, so If I haven't come right yet by the time you wanna sell them, DIBS!

Also last noob question. The ESP body only has 2 Slots (Neck and bridge), wheras the common single coil config is is 3 pups. Will I have to cut a hole in my body or is the loss of the middle pup negligible tone wise?

V8

Lu22 wrote:
Meron Rigas wrote: I've a few pups I'm gonna put up for sale soon, but they are the Dimarzio Fast-track style SC's - not a classic strat sound.
Also last noob question. The ESP body only has 2 Slots (Neck and bridge), wheras the common single coil config is is 3 pups. Will I have to cut a hole in my body or is the loss of the middle pup negligible tone wise?

Aha...not at all a noob question! Let's say we are brainstorming options 8)

1. There is a risk of over-capitalizing on a cheaper guitar...what you put in parts wise, will (highly likey) not be re-couped if you sell. Not a big issue if you plan on returning it to stock...or you love the neck and plan never to sell.
2. The bridge pup in a stock strat is usually referred to as a icepick (typically, it's not wired to a tone pot, just straight through to the volume) and it can be a rather...shrill sound. Worked for Rory Gallagher though - but not me ?

Options could be :
Using cover plates - Go tele style, SC in bridge and neck. Get three positions (bridge, middle, neck)
With a bit of routing and a making up a scratch guard (strat style) - go HSS or SSS.

Or the one I quite like...buy a SX strat/tele 2nd hand for R1k...A SX punches way above it's price and is my cheepie of choice. Great platform to mod from. Corts can be okay too, but I prefer the SX - although the necks can be a tad chunky - nothing a rasp and sandpaper can't sort 8).

Hasie wrote: Maybe we should do a Saturday morning trip to TOMS, Music Connection, Burger King and Krispy Kreme. And play something with P-90's and what not. It sounds like it is a tone I might also like a lot...
And once you know what you want, we can maybe do a combined import package from whichever shop wherever.

Great idea Hasie...I'd be in for a BK/KK run too - I might be a Cpt 'mountain hugger', but I like me some BK :?

I'd try something with P90's and a Tele (singles) and maybe a HSS style too...Just to check out the switching options and different sounds they make!

Lu22

Meron Rigas wrote:
Lu22 wrote:
Meron Rigas wrote: I've a few pups I'm gonna put up for sale soon, but they are the Dimarzio Fast-track style SC's - not a classic strat sound.
Also last noob question. The ESP body only has 2 Slots (Neck and bridge), wheras the common single coil config is is 3 pups. Will I have to cut a hole in my body or is the loss of the middle pup negligible tone wise?
Aha...not at all a noob question! Let's say we are brainstorming options 8)

1. There is a risk of over-capitalizing on a cheaper guitar...what you put in parts wise, will (highly likey) not be re-couped if you sell. Not a big issue if you plan on returning it to stock...or you love the neck and plan never to sell.
2. The bridge pup in a stock strat is usually referred to as a icepick (typically, it's not wired to a tone pot, just straight through to the volume) and it can be a rather...shrill sound. Worked for Rory Gallagher though - but not me ?

Options could be :
Using cover plates - Go tele style, SC in bridge and neck. Get three positions (bridge, middle, neck)
With a bit of routing and a making up a scratch guard (strat style) - go HSS or SSS.

Or the one I quite like...buy a SX strat/tele 2nd hand for R1k...A SX punches way above it's price and is my cheepie of choice. Great platform to mod from. Corts can be okay too, but I prefer the SX - although the necks can be a tad chunky - nothing a rasp and sandpaper can't sort 8).

(In response)
1. Well in all honesty I got the guitar for literally next to nothing, so I don't mind spending a bit to snazz it up while I have it, and unless I can get my hands on a Razorback I don't plan on parting with it anytime soon. If I do sell it, I'm not looking to make a profit out of it if I can sell someone an awesome but affordable guitar.

2. So worst case scenario I can skip the bridge pickup and go with the neck and middle (Like a Tele)?

On the options:

Is a scratch guard entirely necessary?
I do have access to a router and everything I need to fabricate some nice cover plates. Will I have to get a new switch/and or pot to cater for the extra pickup too?

While buying an SX is an easy option, the Fender shape has no appeal to me (Yes yes I'm a pointy loving philistine) so I doubt I'll go that route.

Much appreciation for all the insight. I have a ton to think about.

peterleroux

Lu22 wrote: Will I have to get a new switch/and or pot to cater for the extra pickup too?

And this is where you can disappear down a rabbit hole if you're not careful- there are so many different ways of wiring for three pickups.
the simplest is a new five-way switch like a modern Strat has- Bridge, bridge+middle, middle, middle + neck, neck
But you can also keep the three way you've got and add the middle pickup with a volume pot (a popular scheme for 'Nashville' Teles- a Tele with a strat middle pickup added in.

Or you can go full Brian May and have independent off/in phase/out of phase switches for each pickup

And plenty more here

V8

peterleroux wrote: And this is where you can disappear down a rabbit hole if you're not careful- there are so many different ways of wiring for three pickups.

^^^ What Peter said -I think this is what keeps the strat contemporary, such great fun to tinker with!

Lu22 wrote: (In response)
1. Well in all honesty I got the guitar for literally next to nothing, so I don't mind spending a bit to snazz it up while I have it, and unless I can get my hands on a Razorback I don't plan on parting with it anytime soon. If I do sell it, I'm not looking to make a profit out of it if I can sell someone an awesome but affordable guitar.

2. So worst case scenario I can skip the bridge pickup and go with the neck and middle (Like a Tele)?

On the options:

Is a scratch guard entirely necessary?
I do have access to a router and everything I need to fabricate some nice cover plates. Will I have to get a new switch/and or pot to cater for the extra pickup too?

While buying an SX is an easy option, the Fender shape has no appeal to me (Yes yes I'm a pointy loving philistine) so I doubt I'll go that route.

Much appreciation for all the insight. I have a ton to think about.

Nothing wrong with pointy guitars! I'm digging the reverse headstock shape on this one...but it is a strat (albeit a super strat) shape? ?

A tele would be bridge and neck...we havn't really covered the strat middle pup. If position 1 is bridge, 3 is middle pup and 5 is neck...Typically a middle pup is RWRP (I think that means reverse wound, reverse polarity), which gives you the hum cancelling position 2 (bridge+middle) & 4 (middle + neck). I simplistically think of it as Dire Straights in 2 and Jimi/SRV in 4. To me, A tele middle (neck + bridge) doesn't sound much like anything a stock strat does - not bad, just different.

I've had a SX tele and I liked it lots, but I prefered my strat. Which is no surprise, I've got a nice one and the switching mods (google Kinman K7 wiring) make it rather versatile and fun. Usually I play neck or middle+neck - but recently I've gotten into more cutting sounds and blending the neck pup with the bridge pup can be useful (kinda tele-light).

My thinking behind the scratch plate is that it's a easy way to keep the build neat - hides any routing mishaps and is easy to work on when doing on the electrics. Make one out of a lighter wood with a sweet grain (alder/oak), and use a dark stain to pop the grain and finish with tru-oil - could look killer =D

Yup, you'd want a 5way switch for a stock 3 SC strat setup and 250k pots for your single coils - 500k will work, but at the risk of sounding a bit harsh (brighter). For the tele style, you could retain the 3way and decide if you need to change the pots.

If you get stuck finding bits, the junkies recently got stock of cheaper pots/switches etc.

Lu22

Okay so now I have to research the wiring config too. What have I gotten into.
But down the rabbit hole I go.......

So for my paint job I'm thinking of going metallic snakeskin, not sure about the colours yet.

I'll go for 3 SC pickups (The hunt is on), routing a new slot for the middle pup.
To avoid more holes I'll get a 5 way switch, and replace the pots with 250k's. (Hopefully I can get away with the 2 for now)
In the event that I do have a mishap with the routing, I'm thinking of fabricating a (nearly) seamless pup cover panel, so as not to disrupt the paint job too much.
The plastic cover on the headstock will also get matching paint, as well as a Signature/Logo.

Meron Rigas wrote: If you get stuck finding bits, the junkies recently got stock of cheaper pots/switches etc.

Blackbeard's den has in stock (R55 a pot and R135 for the 5 way switch),
but I'd prefer to support the junkies, although I can't find anything on their site.

As soon as I've found some pup I can start!
Extremely excited.

Major thanks everyone.

Foottapiologist

I've lost track how many times I've drafted a reply to this thread, listing reams of technical stuff, but then just deleting it each time thinking to myself it's none of my business and I mustn't burst bubbles. The subject is too broad and multi-faceted to cover in brief

The short version is I really think that you should do extensive online research in order to gain a reasonable understanding of the subject before spending money or turning a spanner. Google is full of reading matter on the subject. Start with googling "joe gore tonefiend"

Ps
No need to change pots. You can experiment with different capacitors.
Read up on the dozens of switching options before ordering a switch.
Pick-ups? Literally the last thing you should be considering at this stage

Lu22

Foottapiologist wrote: I've lost track how many times I've drafted a reply to this thread, listing reams of technical stuff, but then just deleting it each time thinking to myself it's none of my business and I mustn't burst bubbles. The subject is too broad and multi-faceted to cover in brief

The short version is I really think that you should do extensive online research in order to gain a reasonable understanding of the subject before spending money or turning a spanner. Google is full of reading matter on the subject. Start with googling "joe gore tonefiend"

Ps
No need to change pots. You can experiment with different capacitors.
Read up on the dozens of switching options before ordering a switch.
Pick-ups? Literally the last thing you should be considering at this stage

Haha well forums are for discussing, so its great to see another view point.
I made this thread is to get opinions and tips from the vets who have done this kind of thing before so getting some of the cons would be cool too.
Thing is I really want to overhaul my ESP so that its "My" guitar. So anything stock that I can upgrade, I'm going to.

V8

Foottapiologist wrote: The short version is I really think that you should do extensive online research in order to gain a reasonable understanding of the subject before spending money or turning a spanner. Google is full of reading matter on the subject. Start with googling "joe gore tonefiend"

I agree - though I prefer hands on strings research, pop into a shop and play test what you can find. Ideally, one could appro guitars for a week to get a feel for them. Is why I'm a honorary junkie, I spend way too much time A/B'ing things there ?

I've a soft spot for Joe Gore, Norman pointed him out to me - he's the one fellow who's doing midi the way I believe it should work. He has such a rig and he knows how to use it too - very entertaining!

Lu22 : The junkie do have parts, R55/5 way and R35/pots. The cheap chinese stuff, but it works. Blackbeard's den have the slightly better regarded alpha stuff (I think it's korean?). Much debate online about CTS vs Alpha vs Chinese brands. Personally I'm not much of a cork sniffer, but my strat does have top end bits and the others get by on Alpha/Chinese bit's. The one thing I have noticed is that the cheaper stuff has a bigger variance in resistance (up to 20%, a 500k pot might be 410k or 560k) and the feel isn't as 'nice' as the CTS ones. I'd expect the CTS ones to last a loooong time & withstand the rigours of sweaty gigs much better than the cheaper ones though.

There may well be other differences, but my ears don't pick them up. I did play test my SX tele (redone with CTS/switchcraft bits w/stock pups) vs a 100% stock SX tele and myself and the other player didn't really hear any difference. BUT...we had on different strings, mine was two years older, etc...plus, my ears are not the most educated, so there might have been something subtle I couldn't hear.