Will tube amps and analog pedal die out?

ezietsman

Software amps can already sound as close to the real thing as you'd like. The Kemper too, gets very very close (too close to tell reliably) to the sound of a recorded amp (in this case). I'd be surprised if they didn't take over at some point. I'm not sure anyway will disagree so far.

Let's face it, the only reason we don't all have Kempers is because:

1. They're super expensive
2. They're a bit ugly
3. See 1.
4. See 3.
5. See 4.

There is no reason in the world we can't all have nice-looking 100 Watt Kemper combos, that can only play back profiles, for the same money as a Roland Cube. This is a marketing decision by Kemper. I'm guessing their analysts figured out that players will pay more for something with more "mojo". Either way, the tech exists, and at some point someone will make something that works as well (See Positive Grid Bias for instance).

I love my big ol' valve amps, I just don't believe everyone will stick to them. Most people already don't use valve amps for their sound, just cleans and pedals for the rest. Right there you could use a modern solid state amp already and the sound wouldn't be any different.

Norman86

singemonkey wrote:
Joe Moore wrote:
singemonkey wrote: You don't get the feel of a live amp up close.
This is simply no longer true....

Actually it is true. I stood right next to one earlier this year and played a guitar through it. It sounded like a great recording of a live guitar amp. Not like a live guitar amp.

And I was at Joel 3 weeks ago. It sounded very much like a live guitar amp.
I guess the fact that Joel has a rig of doom helps. But it was very very good. I guess that's what happens when the cab sim is turned off and played through Marshall cabs.
Kemper is an awesome product.

singemonkey

Joe Moore wrote: Ja , well I respect your opinion , ...that was that rig , with those settings , on that day. A KPA rig in a different scenario , with different settings etc , may change your opinion next time . ?

That's what you said last time ?

a) I was playing it through a Marshall cab
b) It is in no way a bad thing that it sounds just like a well recorded guitar amp. You can't mic up a guitar amp that well on a live stage. It just sounded different standing next to it to a live amp.

If I had a device like that, I'd run it straight into the PA and use monitors. Why 'liberate' yourself from a tube amp and then play it through a bulky-ass guitar cab? That seems flat-out pointless. The reasons why these devices will take over for most guitar players is that they're so much more convenient.

Pierre-Cronje

nazarene wrote: Hey guys

I love watching gear run downs from different bands and artists on youtube and Ive noticed many of them are now using the axe fx2 or the kemper.
It seems like it wont be long now before almost every bands and artist will be switching over to a kemper or an axe fx.
Ive wondered if the advancement of modeling tech will make the tube amps obsolete as well as analog pedals.
At the moment a kemper is still very expensive, last time I cheked on ebay it was 31k and up without shipping and customs.
Im sure as time goes on and technology progresses these modeling amps will just get even better and eventually they will become affordable for more people. There are so many pros to owning a kemper that I fear that it might kill the tube amp industry eventually.

What are your thoughts? Will companies like mesa, Marshall, fender, etc etc die out? will we no longer see analog pedals on the market.

In a subjective market there will always be purists who will keep tubes and analog alive. Remember digital is only an approximation of analog and if G-d wanted you to listen to digital sound your ears would have square.

Norman86

Pierre Cronje wrote:
In a subjective market there will always be purists who will keep tubes and analog alive. Remember digital is only an approximation of analog and if G-d wanted you to listen to digital sound your ears would have square.

You must have a sad life. No TV, movies, series, youtube videos, videos taken on your phone, skype calls etc etc etc.
Seeing as that's all digital. :?

Jayhell

I think as we move into the mobile age we will see some changes. When I was a kid I wanted the biggest stack amp known to man. Now that I'm older I want as much power as I can get in a small amp. I want to go to band practice and only walk once to my car. I like to Uber to gigs and not have to worry about walking out on my face or driving in dodgy areas or leaving my car parked out on the street.

Maybe if I had a studio and a place where I could crank an amp, a KPA wouldn't be a bad idea. But I don't have the space, the money or the time to learn how to properly use one of those.

My point being that the guys that want to will have these magnificent KPA beasts in their home studios and whatnot, and some of us will carry small tube amps around for a long time to come, until we can get that power from solid state amps at that size and weight ratio, but then again we are cork sniffers so we will be carrying around tube amps till we all die out.

Norman86

Jayhell wrote: until we can get that power from solid state amps at that size and weight ratio, but then again we are cork sniffers so we will be carrying around tube amps till we all die out.

You're kidding right? You obviously have NOT seen how minute solid state bass heads have become.

singemonkey

Norman86 wrote:
Jayhell wrote: until we can get that power from solid state amps at that size and weight ratio, but then again we are cork sniffers so we will be carrying around tube amps till we all die out.
You're kidding right? You obviously have NOT seen how minute solid state bass heads have become.

Yeah. It's not about power, it's about tone.

Ibanezguy

As an electronics tech i can just say that the "older" style integrated circuits, i.e 4558 op amps found in , among other things, the coveted Ibanez tube screamer, are still very much available. They are also available in SMT (surface mount) versions. That said it is not going to last too much longer. Don't be fooled that the JRC4558 is any better than any other 4558, its not.

Having mentioned the Ibanez Tube Screamer leads me nicely into some thoughts on the whole TONE discussion and the tube versus modelling or solid state debate. Now it is common belief that your tone is most affected by the "source" so take your pick - is it pickups or cable or pre amplifier pedals , guitar amplifier input stage, guitar amplifier power stage, guitar speaker etc etc you get the picture and where I'm going with this. Ok so then when you have tube purists saying that the pre - amp stage of their tube amp shapes the initial tone but they may at some stage be driving this with a Tube Screamer - is it then not the Tube Screamer shaping the initial overdrive? The 4558 op amp chip is probably one of the cheapest, "do all" , "used in cheap audio products" electronics components available but the Tube Screamer is a way cool medium gain drive pedal. Just a point to think about. Furthermore a Tube Screamer, even when OFF but in your signal chain affects your tone as it is NOT True Bypass.

YES, you purists, tube amps are great YES I'd probably use one if i had a guitar tech to set the fkn thing up for me and it WILL be either a Soldano SLO100 head or a Mesa Dual Rectifier on a 4 x 12 Greenback cab but lets get real. We gig in small venues for peanuts so NO I don't want one LOL

In closing - I have a couple of Line 6 Pod HD500x's (I have 2 because I would cry and give up if i ever lost the tone I currently have lol ) and I fkn love them and I get a tone through a PA I am more than happy with and the interaction between guitar and POD is actually unbelievably awesome and amp like. (Note the recent introduction of Kirlin cable has made an unbelievable improvement to my over all sound ?) According to the internet some people say the Pods suck and that the Elevenrack kicks its arse. Really? I also have a version 2 Elevenrack and its sounds fantastic too but it DOES NOT kick the HD500x's arse in any universe I live in. I'm a tweaker and spend hours with these units and I would rather plug into the PA via an HD500X with a full range monitor than a tube amp and I have been doing this for a while as i am now turning 52 ?

Apparently the AXE FX 2 kicks the Elevenracks arse and the Kemper kicks its arse and so it goes on and on. The year is 2016 and modelling is getting better and better. I think many players will be surprised how many of the favourite guitar tracks were tracked with either a modelling processor or a software plugin modellor- just saying. ?

Just play and enjoy it no one in the audience would know a tube from a transistor 8)

Arno-West

Ibanezguy wrote: Now it is common belief that your tone is most affected by the "source" so take your pick - is it pickups or.......

Source of Tone - Hands.

Ibanezguy

I was referring to the non living part of a typical signal chain. ?

I would love to hear David Gilmour play a Behringer Strat through a cheap 15w transistor amp with no compression, reverb or delay LOL. I consider him to be a true great by the way but seriously he won't impress anyone with the cheapest gear on the planet.

Tubes will be here as long as people pay the ridiculous prices for them and as long as the hype is there ?

Cerise

Ibanezguy ... but is it all hype? because tubes have made a comeback in audio / HiFi amps that for many years were all solid state...there has to be a reason for that, and in the case of digital/ modelling amps, the voicings, the tones are based on original amp sounds..at least as a starting point

IceCreamMan

Arno West wrote:
Ibanezguy wrote: Now it is common belief that your tone is most affected by the "source" so take your pick - is it pickups or.......
Source of Tone - Hands.

it lives..... ?

Look, I am sure there are still people using type writers to write letters and novels on etc....

singemonkey

Arno West wrote:
Ibanezguy wrote: Now it is common belief that your tone is most affected by the "source" so take your pick - is it pickups or.......
Source of Tone - Hands.

Which is why a nylon string classical guitar sounds exactly the same as a les paul into a cranked Marshall when played by the same person.