Click Tracks

nick · 2009-03-03T10:25:58+00:00

found this post on slashdot. found it quite interesting.. I'll quote the bit Im referring to. some say that songs recorded against a click track sound ster...

Click Tracks

Bob-Dubery

Renesongs wrote: My 2c worth. If you can't play with a click track you haven't learned how to keep in time . Go back and learn to play with a click track or metronome because if you can't keep pace with the click crack which is stable and reliable you sure as hell are never going to be able to keep in time with other musicians. Even if you are going to be a solo artist click tracks help you keep in time with yourself e.g. take a listen to Blackbird by Paul McCartney where he became so comfortable with the click track that he left it in the master.

IIRC that wasn't a click track. That was a tapping toe.

However I agree with your main point - you need to be able to keep time with click tracks, metronomes etc as well as more important and intelligent devices like band members ?

If you can't keep time with a click track, then how are you going to stay in time with the rest of the band?

I don't like playing with click tracks or metronomes, but it is a good discipline. Especially if, as I do, you play absolutely solo. The audience will often not notice fluffed notes or a change to the wrong chord, but they are guaranteed to notice a "dropped beat".

[deleted]

I don't think it has to be "either/or". Using a varied rythm and a metronome is good and sometimes gives body to a song, if that makes sense.
I have to admit that a plain metronome is harder for me to follow than a keyboard drum track.

From my experiance of trying to keep toddlers in time I've come to notice that there is a relationship between the expression of the peice and the tempo. It sounds logical, but took me a while to put the two together. It then makes it easier to be flexible in keeping people in time. Sometimes you have to change the expression of the piece to accomodate people going out of time.

So basicaly if you don't know what you're saying with your song it won't matter if you have a click track or not.

deanBailey

One way that helped me to understand how to play tempo perfect was to actually tab or transcribe your piece down on a graph or stave.

Guitar Pro has saved my life regarding this, and it tells you if you fill the bar correctly and if not, how many notes are needed to fill it.

Doing this will show you exactly where the note needs to be on the grid. Which then helps you understand that:
"hmm...ok if I play on the first count of the 4/4 bar The next note in 8ths would be on the "and". (1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and)"
When applying this to a studio environment, zoom in on your notes to see perfectly if they're on the grid-line/place guitar pro or your stave says it should be ?. I've had one drummer tell me "Jesus Dean please don't zoom in like that...It makes me look bad"

If you're playing 16th notes, try an hit the first note on each count solidly or will a little accent to assure yourself you're on the right track, and when you can't tell the different between the note and the beep/click during play back then you're in time ? (assuming that it's the right note)

lol I don't know if I explained myself well enough here but it's much easier to explain in person.
I often sit with musicians explaining this to get their best performance.

AlanRatcliffe

deanBailey wrote: First I'll say my point: I personally have this rule. IF YOU CAN'T PLAY TO A CLICK TRACK, YOU CAN'T PLAY!

Renesongs wrote: My 2c worth. If you can't play with a click track you haven't learned how to keep in time.

+1. I learned to drum to a click (we didn't have a bassist at first, so it was always sequenced). It's a skill that a drummer learns and if they have bothered practising with at least a metronome, they'll get it quickly (hint: when you can hear the click you're not in time), and you eventually learn to push or pull the feel around the click without straying off tempo. If there is a real tempo change in the song, then you program it into the click.

Neps

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: hint: when you can hear the click you're not in time

hahaha.. My click is in the one ear.. and I normaly take that can off halfway through the take, so I don't hear the click..hahaha.. It's a move I've perfected over the years to use my shoulder to get the the cans off from my head..

Then some ingenious engineer got the idea to ake the click so loud that I start with the can off and you 'feel' the click through your skull.. (and NO it's not cause a drummers head is filled with air.. :? )

AlanRatcliffe

I always found that drummers respond best to percussion about the head. I think that's where the expression "drumming it into my skull" comes from. ?

Neps

But being able to play to a click has made me the bane of my band members.. It's got to the point where we'll have an argument about the bpm and I'll just say check 108bpm and they all will look at me with a look of 'how does he know the bpm without even checking it on a metronome..?' A little party trick between musos :?

Did a session with a band from CT (wont name names, cause they might be on the forum ? ) And the drummer was all over the place.. But an amazing thing happend, when all the overdubs got on the track it sounded awesome.. Seems the band actualy functions better with a wayward drummer than a steady one.. Might be cause none of them can actualy keep time.. :-[

Riaan

My two cents, as a newbie recording enthusiast: the click track is what saves the day, if it wasn't for that just about everything would be in a time of it's own... ???

I remember a quote from Mick Fleetwood, who said that he tends to be a bit too fast, and John McVie tends to be too slow, so "we meet halfway and it sounds ok.

Neps

Riaan wrote: I remember a quote from Mick Fleetwood, who said that he tends to be a bit too fast, and John McVie tends to be too slow, so "we meet halfway and it sounds ok.

Good quote!! ?

Bob-Dubery

Riaan wrote: My two cents, as a newbie recording enthusiast: the click track is what saves the day, if it wasn't for that just about everything would be in a time of it's own... ???

I remember a quote from Mick Fleetwood, who said that he tends to be a bit too fast, and John McVie tends to be too slow, so "we meet halfway and it sounds ok.

Yet when the two of them started playing together (in the mid 60s, in John Mayall's band) there wouldn't have been click tracks. Experience and, in this case, chemistry go a long way.

I recently read a book by Geoff Emerick who engineered many of the Beatles albums (starting with Revolver). Some of the interesting aspects (for me) were
- difficulties keeping time in the studio. Though apparently McCartney's timing was rock solid, so sometimes the remedy was to get Paul to shake a tambourine and tell Ringo to play in time with Paul.
- tracks got spliced together from various takes, and as a result some songs have slight tempo changes as there were no click tracks and so takes would vary in tempo.
- the skill and discerning ears of the engineers who would pick up slight tempo and pitch changes and often compensate for them or hide a sudden transition by slowing the tape reels slightly by hand

To address another point in this thread about old stuff sounding better, Emerick makes the point that a lot of the Beatles recordings would have sounded less interesting if recorded now with all the technology that is available. The comparatively limited technology of the 60s (Sgt Pepper was recorded on a pair of 4 track systems) meant that they had to think outside of the box, and that they had to be very sure about the decisions that they made because once they "bounced down" to a single track things could not be undone.

The book is titled "Here, There and Everywhere". It's an interesting read.

Neps

It's the old story of how technology has made it almost impossible to think outside of the box.. Unlimited tracks are evil!! But then again, technology has made it better as well.. No more tape heads to align..

But I wonder what Jimmy Hendrix or John Bonham would have said if the engineer said 'we can't do the take now, the jitter on the clock is throwing my lock out, and at 96k we need a stable clock..' The poor engineer might just be shot at sight!!

Renesongs

AFAIK Jimi's sound engineer would have been our very own Eddie Kramer - I'm sure he would have made a plan ?

Neps

Mr. Kramer was his engineer.. And Eddie would have made a plan.. But I don't think Jimmy would have been happy having to wait because some weird clocking issue is making his session is taking a backseat :?

But then again.. He might have gotten some inspiration and wrote a song titled 'clocks give me the blues' :bopping:

Reinhardt

Your 3rd and 4th fingers tend to be lazy when you play, especially when you start out. If you don't play with a click track, you wil learn to play sloppy and will take very long 2 learn off. I've seen this, very tallented guitarists. I understand that it sounds more natural when you play without it, I also do. But you have 2 practice with it, otherwise you wil never learn 2 play on beat. The biggest secret with music is not "speed" but "control". Is it better, not 2 be able 2 play on beat but ofbeat OR 2 be able 2 play on both?

stuntmusic

From a recording engineer's perspective.

If you don't play to a click track, you will have difficulty getting players to be on top of the beat when coming back in from breaks, quiet parts or other things that cause silence when recording parts.

While there is a nice feel playing live and there being tempo changes in live performances, nothing is more frustrating when you come out of some solo or brindge that no one is playing in and trying to get everyone back in on the ONE.

Or for songs that have guitar intros and outros by themselves, or other instruments that play by themselves.

I've had bands in my studio who could not play to a click track no matter how hard they tried and they were vewry disappointed there tunes didn't sound as good as more polished players who could play to a click track.