wern101
not sure if this is the correct thread, but here goes...
Ok so I have to admit I did not go through the rest of the posts on this forum to see if anything helps.
I have recently decided to focus on my lead technique. Problem has always been: 'what note do I play and when?'
So I got reading up on scales, modes, arpeggios, finger training exercises etc. And I am left feeling slightly overwhelmed and a little dejected. None of this stuff seems to make sense to me. they talk about pentatonic scales VS major Scale VS dorian, Phrygian, mixolidian etc etc etc. All very confusing.
Am I missing something? A crucial 'first step' in understanding music theory? :-\
I found some great videos on youtube by a guy called Steve Stine and another called Jim Bowley. Both of these guys seem to have a very basic way of showing and explaining, and after having applied some of their teaching, my lead technique is getting off the ground.
But it still feels like I am only going through the motions....and playing someone else's stuff.
Any suggestions? Resources? Where to start? What to do?
Thanks!
TokyoP0P
I wish I could give you a perfect answer, like a single line equation that explains everything perfectly, but I can't and I don't know much textbook theory so I'd be talking out of my ass anyway.
The only way I got better at lead was by improvising/jamming over backing tracks or even no tracks at all and just come up with stuff that is melodic and goes somewhere. As in has some vague structural backbone.
Its GREAT to learn scales. That obviously helps a ton as far as becoming familiar with the fretboard to some degree and definitely for giving one a sense of direction, but having a jam is simply one of the best ways to fuse.
Find some tunes, put 'em on loop, plug in and play. I don't know any better way to find your own style and become a better lead play than that.
Shibbibilybob
I don't have any particular resources, but I find/found the best way was to learn chord theory, and to learn my fretboard.
So start by investigating what makes a chord, and which notes from the major scale are included in the different chords (the 1st the 3rd and the 5th for a major chord, the 1st, flat 3rd and 5th for a minor chord). Once you are comfortable with the concept of major, minor and 7th chords, start learning the arpeggios of a few chords (which is to play each note within the chord, but one note at a time).
Then try and play the arpeggios in one position on your neck, whilst a loop/recording of the chord being strummed plays in the background.
For instance, if you're playing over a strummed C major chord, find every C (1st),E(3rd) and G (5th) in the first position and play them in sequence on the beats, start slowly, and play it with intention. You may actually wanna say out loud C, G, E as you play each note. Then switch to 1, 3 , and so on.
The point is not simply to play the correct notes, but to know "I'm going to play a G, because I'm in C and G is my 5th" Learning your fretboard is accomplished through this too, and also kinda essential.
Once you have the Cmajor down, try learning a Gmajor (or even a G7, which goes very nicely with C) (containing a G-1st, B-3rd, D-5th, and an F-flat7) play through each of those in the first position, and then with the chord strummed underneath it.
Then I'd record a few minutes of strumming Cmajor for 4 bars, and then G7 for 4 bars, working my way up and down the arpeggios, playing one note per beat at first).
If you do this through even just every chord in the Key of C major, and you'll be flying.
wern101
Thanks gents. :goodtimes:
TokyoP0P wrote:
Its GREAT to learn scales. That obviously helps a ton as far as becoming familiar with the fretboard to some degree and definitely for giving one a sense of direction, but having a jam is simply one of the best ways to fuse.
Find some tunes, put 'em on loop, plug in and play. I don't know any better way to find your own style and become a better lead play than that.
@Tokyopop: I kinda have been doing that. And was elated at how 'nice' it sounded. BUT, the 'theory' of what to play when still eludes me. Eg - a song in the key of A and then i gotta figure out a lead section... ? That part always gets me.
@Shibbibilybob (i copied and pasted your username cause i couldn't figure out how to type or say it) Thanks for the tip, makes sense. I scanned briefly but will do a closer study tonight. My quick assumption is that this will teach me which lead notes to play in which key - starting with the basics of playing the same notes as the chord that is being played. (or did i screw up that assumption as well?)
Thanks again guys! Really appreciated. :bopping:
ezietsman
The truth is that you can play basically anything you want to, as long as it sounds good to someone. You can follow the western classical music theory (like what you hear on the radio etc) and match scales to keys, so you'll mostly use notes from a single scale during your lead.
As for a formula, simply put, look at all the chords that you are playing over and the notes in those chords, those are the ones you can safely use and they'll always sounds good. Some others will also sound good. This is where the scales come in.
Using the key-scale at first is probably the easiest, most of us actually would have learned the blues scale first, its the minor pentatonic scale with an added note (the flat 5th note). So basically, if the song is in the key of A (major) you can use the A major scale's notes as you please. They'll work fine. If the song is in A minor, then you use the A minor notes. I guess this is where most of us start (and I'm still stuck there haha).
wern101
ez wrote:
So basically, if the song is in the key of A (major) you can use the A major scale's notes as you please. They'll work fine. If the song is in A minor, then you use the A minor notes.
Thanks EZ.
So, this is then the
Major scale that will be played? And if the song is in the key of G, then you play the Major scale (same as with key of A) but starting with the G note on the top string? This is what i think i understand...
Thus - the major scale's shape/fingering never changes, it only moves up and down the fretboard, depending on the key of the song?
Thanks.
ezietsman
wern101 wrote:
ez wrote:
So basically, if the song is in the key of A (major) you can use the A major scale's notes as you please. They'll work fine. If the song is in A minor, then you use the A minor notes.
Thanks EZ.
So, this is then the
Major scale that will be played? And if the song is in the key of G, then you play the Major scale (same as with key of A) but starting with the G note on the top string? This is what i think i understand...
Thus - the major scale's shape/fingering never changes, it only moves up and down the fretboard, depending on the key of the song?
Thanks.
That is correct. One more trick, if the song is in, say G major, like Knockin' on Heaven's Door, you'll see that the solo looks like it is being played in the key of E, but those notes are E minor scale notes. This is called the relative minor of the key, so if you're in the key of G major, it's relative minor LOOKS LIKE the E major scale (it is actually the Aeolian mode). To find it for a given key, start at the root note, G, and go down 3 half steps, you'll see for G it is E. I think this is correct, it certainly works for the pentatonics ?
funkadelic
I am in the process of learning "outside playing" (jazz fusion), and the key lessons I have learned are:
1. In order to play "outside" you have to master playing "inside", i.e., know your fingerboard inside out as well as your major and minor scales as well as the modes (of the major and minor scales) as all else is pretty much derived from there;
2. Know the function of a note within the context of the key centre or mode. For example a E note in the key of G major serves a different purpose vs say a E note in the key of E minor. Same notes but different tonal function.
That way instead of learning hundreds of scales you can milk the tonality of a few selected notes...probably sounds simpler than it really is...
wern101
Hey guys. thanks so much for all the help. i will have to make a study of all of this in December. not going on holiday so will have lots of time to play.
I shall provide an udpate on my progress in the new year... ?
I am also busy with finger exercises, specifically aimed at improving my speed, precision, dexterity....and that dreaded pinky...
Thanks again!! really appreciated.
Keira-WitherKay
often all thats required to get your "theory" together is a good tutor
you tube and online lessons can offer a lot and some are brilliant but often they are short (as in length) and can't cover the basics so you are expected to have a solid understanding of basic theory concepts to understand whats being explained
but Theory is NOT hard it just takes patience and the trick i find is you need to start at the beginning ...and work through it in a logical fashion, music and math is very much the same in this respect... if you miss a step it can make what you trying to learn seem way more complicated than it already is .
funkadelic
+1 to to what Keira WitherKay said...
I struggled for a long time with the translation of theory to a practical level. Got myself a professional session musician recently to overcome the hurdle...the good thing about a tutor is that the lessons are customised...much more flexible than the Youtube etc offerings...which makes progress 10 times faster..in my case at least
Shibbibilybob
+1 on the good teacher.
I spent around 9 years mucking about, thinking theory was tough, not really getting it, and ultimately not really understanding what I was doing.
I had a few guitar teachers when i was a teenager, but not since.
3 years ago I started lessons with a superb guitar teacher in cape town and his explanations and teachings made it all make sense...
we started with the fingerboard. He asked how well I knew it, and then kinda teased me a little for having "played" guitar for 9 years without knowing my fretboard very well.
I still don't know it nearly as well as I'd like, but I'm an infinitely better player for having learnt it as well as I have so far.
Stoffeltoo
+1 on Keira's comment for a teacher.
Personal experience has proven the value.
I should have started years back :-[
TokyoP0P
This thread and watching Guthrie Govan navigate and improvise over any genre thrown at him has inspired me to learn some theory.
I might start with this book.
ChiChi
I found that www.fretjam.com has easy to understand information on everything I have wondered about so far. I was looking up scales and it had me linking back all the time - right back down to the basics. I learnt so much in just a few short reads ?
OldButNew
I've trawled the 'net and reckon this is the best free site out there - over 58m hits up to 2011........! Incredible free offerings from beginner to advanced:
http://www.justinguitar.com/
V8
+1, thanks for reminder Attila. It made it onto bookmark toolbar...high praise!
I didn't manage to get all that far with it last time around, though I have a good motivational reason to take it further now.
werner-bonthuys
If you nail the Major scale first, the Modes can easily follow. A lot of people see Modes as scalar devices when, in fact, they are Harmonic (Chords) resting places.
How well do you understand Harmony and how scales relate to a Key, or a chord progression you want to play over?
If you look at the C Major Scale:
C D E F G A B C
And you harmonize it by taking every third note and playing them as a chord:
C D E F G A B C
c d e f g a b c
e f g a b c d e
g a b c d e f g
You'll see that they actually form chords you know:
C D E F G A B C
c d e f g a b c
e f g a b c d e
g a b c d e f g
Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bminb5 Cmaj
You can then go further and number these chords (roman numerals) to indicate their function:
C D E F G A B C
c d e f g a b c
e f g a b c d e
g a b c d e f g
Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bminb5 Cmaj
I ii iii IV V vi vii I
So, if you look at a chord progression in the key of C Major ex:
Cmaj - Emin - Dmin - Gmaj
You'll see that they are from the chords you built using the C Major Scale, therefore you can play the C Major scale over any and all of them. By playing any chord in a given key, you are playing the scale it's made from anyway, but just in three (or more) layers.
The only thing you have to be wary of are the semi tones. One will always sound better than the other over different chords. The trick is to keep playing and not stop when you hear something sounds wrong. That's why Pentatonics are easier to make sound good - no semi tones.
Sorry if I'm being presumptuous about you knowledge of music.
So... looking at this stuff, how well do you understand what a key is? Where are you on all of this?
I attached the boxed shapes of the major scale that show the intervals too. (no copyright - my own work)
