Happy new Tokai ES158 day to me!!!!

ezietsman · 2015-10-12T14:40:34+00:00

I only have a potato quality picture-taking device right now, so here's something else to tease the tastebuds until I get my grubby paws on a real camera later, at home. This is my actual guitar, but I didn't take the photo ?

Rowen-M

Wow! Congrats dude. Absolutetly stunning.

ezietsman

singemonkey wrote I should mention that, even by Tokai's high standards, EZ's new guitar is killer. It's a joy to play and sounds like a R50k guitar. The amount of vibration going through to the headstock is astonishing. So jealous. >☹

Yeah, the one thing I noticed, the few times I *checked* the tuning (it hasn't gone out of tune in 5-6 hours of playing) my polytune clip tuner had no problems at all. With my Tele I have to move it around until it bites. This guitar resonates like a baws. I've played a number of very expensive 335s and only one of them, a 1964 (I think) with a modern neck (The old neck broke off) comes close.

I am absolutely gobsmacked, I was expecting it to be good but not this good.

morph

ez wrote With the modern wiring scheme most guitars have the tone control is wired before the volume control, this however causes the volume and tone circuits to act like a low pass filter. So, when the volume is turned to 10, the cutoff frequency is at some high value such that all the audible frequencies from the guitar is let through to the amp, but when you turn the volume down that cutoff frequency quickly moves into the audible range, and it is quite low when the volume is at its minimum. With the 50s spec, the volume is wired before the tone circuit, so you do not get the treble loss but you now have the volume control interacting with the tone control, the tone circuit's sweep is different at different volume settings.

The end result of the 50s wiring is that you can turn your dirty amp into a clean amp by turning the volume on the guitar down, without sacrificing all your trebles. This is nice. Not everyone likes this but I really do. The other option is a treble bleed circuit instead but that's a bit more fiddly to install.

Interesting, can you publish your final rewiring design once you are done. Would like to try it on my LC107 ?

ezietsman

Greg Perkins wrote
ez wrote With the modern wiring scheme most guitars have the tone control is wired before the volume control, this however causes the volume and tone circuits to act like a low pass filter. So, when the volume is turned to 10, the cutoff frequency is at some high value such that all the audible frequencies from the guitar is let through to the amp, but when you turn the volume down that cutoff frequency quickly moves into the audible range, and it is quite low when the volume is at its minimum. With the 50s spec, the volume is wired before the tone circuit, so you do not get the treble loss but you now have the volume control interacting with the tone control, the tone circuit's sweep is different at different volume settings.

The end result of the 50s wiring is that you can turn your dirty amp into a clean amp by turning the volume on the guitar down, without sacrificing all your trebles. This is nice. Not everyone likes this but I really do. The other option is a treble bleed circuit instead but that's a bit more fiddly to install.
Interesting, can you publish your final rewiring design once you are done. Would like to try it on my LC107 ?

The change is frighteningly simple. If it is wired the modern way, you only have to change one wire per volume pot.

Here's the two:

50s

Modern

ezietsman

I see the tone pots are also slightly different, wonder if I screwed it up years ago and that's why my tone controls interact... ?

IceCreamMan

Awesome guitar congratzzzz think I saw pics of it on FB already...

cant go wrong with the jap tokais.... I am a convert

ezietsman

IceCreamMan wrote Awesome guitar congratzzzz think I saw pics of it on FB already...

cant go wrong with the jap tokais.... I am a convert

Preaching to the choir, I have 3 of them.

Sean

Super nice EZ, enjoy. I like that the flame is subtle, very cool 8)

ezietsman

and this is what it sounds like.

I used my 18 watt into its Superlite channel (Slightly more plexi-voiced than the other channel), recorded the cabinet (Celestion G12H30) directly with an Audix i5 mic into Garageband, I added a touch of reverb in there. Guitar straight into the amp with a cable and no other postprocessing besides the reverb.

Sean

Nothing wrong with that 8)

rikus

Man that's nice... I've been jonesing for a 335 shape since I played a ES 138 burst a while ago.

I've never ventured to the gibson side of the street, but I've been tempted more and more recently... to round out the the collection you know... If I were to acquire one gibson type of guitar, in your opinion as an aficionado, which would be more versatile? A LP or a 335? Can a LP do something a 335 can't tone wise for example?

ezietsman

Hmmm. Hard to say. They both have the same pickups and control layouts so the range of tones from that is the same. The starting point is different though. Good LPs are brighter than 335s, a 335 is more refined, a grownup guitar if you will and they look amazing. Also, the 335 is way more comfortable than the LP, has more sustain and better fret access and is lighter but in the end they are meant for the same purpose. You'd have to decide yourself. I don't think I'll ever not have a LP but now I'm wondering why I didn't buy a 335 years ago.

To be honest, a 335 is very close to the perfect electric guitar, if you can stand the aesthetic.

singemonkey

Even though I don't have one, I'd be tempted to choose the 335 as my sole guitar if I could only have one. It sounds a lot like a Les Paul, but is lighter and more comfortable to play–especially sitting down. It also has better upper fret access and the pickup selector is in a more reasonable place.

But saying that, a good LP has a slight edge in tone for general playing. The acoustic 'wings' of a 335 make them slightly boomier, which makes the sound a smidgeon less defined in a mix. But really the difference is slight, and is only relevant if both guitars are good examples of the type.

Some 335s can sound shrill–though I've never heard a Tokai that was. I thought it was because they had mahogany centre-blocks, unlike the Gibsons which use maple. But looking in EZ's the centre-block is almost certainly maple. So it's a mystery why they sound so consistently good in demos, while with Gibsons there's more variety–although many of them sound amazing.

But yeah. If all my guitars were nicked, I'd be getting one of these. The only exception to the comfort thing might be if you're very small–like Angus young (even though he played one at one point–then the guitar might look a bit absurd.

rikus

Thanks guys, that's great info. I prefer the aesthetics of the 335 plus if their as close as you guys say I don't think I'm a good enough player so that those differences become material in any way.

Bonus question! Are the Chinese models worth looking at or does it have to be Japanese?

ezietsman

Rikus wrote Thanks guys, that's great info. I prefer the aesthetics of the 335 plus if their as close as you guys say I don't think I'm a good enough player so that those differences become material in any way.

Bonus question! Are the Chinese models worth looking at or does it have to be Japanese?

I haven't played a chinese one I don't think. If you are considering those then the Epiphone Dot is something I see people like a lot. Haven't played that either. My advice would be to save up and get the Japanese model. You won't regret it.

rikus

You're probably right. :goodtimes: Thanks.

ezietsman

Rikus wrote You're probably right. :goodtimes: Thanks.

There's some second hand ones going but none of them are red. ?

singemonkey

Yeah. I wasn't thrilled with the MIC Tokai 335. Maybe good competition for the Epiphone (and certainly better looking), but not up to the quality of the MIJ Tokais.

2nd hand Tokai ES138 would be the best bet unless you're on a really tight budget.

rikus

singemonkey wrote 2nd hand Tokai ES138 would be the best bet unless you're on a really tight budget.

I'll start keeping my eyes peeled!

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