Solid top / Laminate discussion

Nitebob

I just wanted some opinions and experience on this...

Mainly because the general consensus seems to be that solid tops are the best, yet the Yamaha F310's (which is laminate as far as I know) sound is better than some solid tops.

Saw a post on this forum where Kierra discussed an Ibanez laminate which soudned excuisite, can your views on this?

Bob

V8

I know there was little interest in that luthier document I posted a few weeks ago - but one thing that made a big impression on me was Marc Maingard's opinion on selecting wood and how each top (I would think this applies to laminates as well as solid tops) has a certain thickness that sounds best and that it takes a certain combination of intuition backed by years of skill to find the sweet spot when one creates the top.

There's a general opinion that solid top = good sound.. Certainly I'm no expert, but I've always thought that was logic > intuition approach. Then again, I'll take a guitar that feels good over a guitar that sounds good. Yes, it's fair to say I am a tone luddite.

Wizard would also chip in that a lot of the sound comes from the neck - we did some experiments with piezo pickups and certainly there spots on the neck that had a lot more volume than you'd expect.

My 000.2c - Trust your ears and A/B comparison test everything you can get your hands on.

Squonk

What V8 says

I recently acquired a real cheapo Ibanez Classical, those boxed set ones that come with a bag,tuner etc.

I only bought it to help out one of the neighbours and I was always meaning to get me a cheap "campfire" nylon, so it was cushty all around!

The thing is - This guitar sounds and plays like good stuff. Even stays in tune for at least 10 minutes.

It's spruce laminate and it's not far in tone from my Takamine!

singemonkey

I think the big thing is that a laminate top won't change. If it sounds bad new, it'll never improve. A solid top is very likely to improve.

So naturally laminate tops can be better, but you need to make sure it sounds great in the showroom. A solid top won't sound its best when its brand new. But of course there's no guarantee that it'll end up sounding better than a great laminate top.

Nitebob

Came across this clip to further fuel (hopefully) the discussion. Is his theory/test flawed?

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V8

Umm, seriously? ???

The test involved striking a tuning fork with a finger that is being held against the bridge by hand.

There is no way it can be 100% reproduced time on time. That is pseudo-scientific at best. Indivitative that a more investigation with a FAR more reproducible method could lead to a interesting result.

Wizard

After having fiddled with the science and theory of resonance; and experimented with all sorts of woods including plywood I'm leaning in the direction that what sounds good sounds good. ?

Even two bits of wood from the same plank can have different resonant properties.

Airguitar

I think it's safe to say that in general a solid top has distinct advantages over a laminate. However a well made laminate will sound better than a badly made solid top. So let's get bad manufacturing out of the way for the purposes of this discussion. I have a LOT of guitars and some of them are laminated all around and sound great when strummed gently. The solid tops give more complex tones and do not compress when playing harder. Better playing dynamics. And they get better with time.

Gearhead

Then there are double tops... The best of both kinds

Shibbibilybob

Yeah, though double tops are very very different to factory laminate tops.

I am coming to realise it's all about the builder, or in a factory scenario, the luck of the draw.

I would expect a guitar built from cheap play wood to sound great, if it were built by a luthier who properly voiced and braced the top...I'd expect that guitar to be a better guitar than a factory-built solid-wood guitar in which the braces, tops, backs etc are identical on all models.