Visashi
Hi all,
I've been wondering lately about the relevancy of high end guitars. Man how I would love to own a Gretsch White Falcon! Or one of those insanely beautiful Duesenbergs. They sound incredible and look even more insanely hot. But, can the ordinary person in the crowd really hear that tone and appreciate it like the person playing it? Sure it plays like a dream.
But is it really worth paying all that money? Just a thought. :-\
ezietsman
It is and it isn't.
Very cheap guitars usually sound really cheap too. Very expensive guitars on the other hand usually don't. With amps the same thing goes. You can tell when they're on either end of the spectrum. However, guitars and amps alike improve in quality as you move the price up, but the quality very quickly starts improving slower than the price. You have diminishing returns. That R80k Gibson Custom shop Goldtop is nicer than my Tokai but it literally costs more than 10 times than what I paid for mine and it is nowhere near 10 times nicer than mine. It is 5% nicer. Maybe less. On the other hand, a Squire Bullet Strat may cost R1500 but it is a much inferior instrument to most other Squire guitars.
The audience doesn't know if your guitar cost R1k or R10k or R100k but they CAN tell if it sounds bad and the guitar player may well struggle getting good sounds and dynamics and feel out of cheaply made equipment. I don't like blaming equipment when more practice would have made a bigger difference but there is a limit.
The point of playing an instrument is that it makes YOU happy. YOU must be happy with the look and feel of it and how it sounds. This goes for guitars and amps alike. I don't agree with the prices some of these things are going for though. But that's for another thread ?
AlanRatcliffe
^ This. If it makes you happy, it'll inspire you to play better, and the audience can usually pick up that you are having fun and respond to it.
Nitebob
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
The most critical towards musos are other musos. Watched the voice last week and my wife notices the nice guitar sound, I notice what make of guitar it is and his technique, and I think she enjoys it more...
Don't get me wrong...huge respect for Ard Matthews and what he does for SA Music. But he was playing live on Bok Radio yesterday...all I was thinking is: "Strumming? Really? From Ard Matthews?" but no doubt what the rest (and by the rest I mean non muso) of the Western Cape heard was something else
Best example I've heard was one Kiera used during a lesson. If you had 2 theaters next to each other, one had Guthrie Govan playing and the other had Green day...which would sell out first...and would it be because they are better musos? Would it be because of better equipment?
warrenpridgeon
Nitebob wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
The most critical towards musos are other musos. Watched the voice last week and my wife notices the nice guitar sound, I notice what make of guitar it is and his technique, and I think she enjoys it more...
Don't get me wrong...huge respect for Ard Matthews and what he does for SA Music. But he was playing live on Bok Radio yesterday...all I was thinking is: "Strumming? Really? From Ard Matthews?" but no doubt what the rest (and by the rest I mean non muso) of the Western Cape heard was something else
Best example I've heard was one Kiera used during a lesson. If you had 2 theaters next to each other, one had Guthrie Govan playing and the other had Green day...which would sell out first...and would it be because they are better musos? Would it be because of better equipment?
To further expand on this thinking, but in a different direction. Get off stage after having a blast and having made a bunch of mistakes... People will be like "EPIC GIG!". Get off stage where you played "well" but were super nervous because you were concentrating so hard to play well... "meh". lol
Shibbibilybob
Nice to see you back in these parts Alan. I hope you're well ?
For me, playing predominantly acoustic guitar, I think it is very definitely worth investing in a high end, solid wood guitar. With acoustics, a hand made guitar is the ultimate, because each component can be tuned individually during the manufacture.
With electrics I find it's more about comfort. Any comfortable, stable body/neck combination can be turned into a very decent guitar with a decent fret job, decent set up, decent pickups and decent hardware.
ezietsman
Yeah well, Guthrie caters for the guitar nerd crowd so he'll never fill big venues with 'normal people'. Greenday has very memorable tunes that a lot of people can recognise. This is far more important than the gear. At the level these people operate at all the gear is highest-end so that's not a factor at all. Then there is Jack White with his cheap guitars and he does fill venues, but he uses the peculiarities to his advantage and he writes dynamite tunes.
Nitebob
ez wrote:
Yeah well, Guthrie caters for the guitar nerd crowd so he'll never fill big venues with 'normal people'. Greenday has very memorable tunes that a lot of people can recognise. This is far more important than the gear. At the level these people operate at all the gear is highest-end so that's not a factor at all. Then there is Jack White with his cheap guitars and he does fill venues, but he uses the peculiarities to his advantage and he writes dynamite tunes.
...and Willy Nelson, with his holy 3/4 sized nylon guitar... :bopping: still rocking alonmg at 81...
ezietsman
Shibbibilybob wrote:
With electrics I find it's more about comfort. Any comfortable, stable body/neck combination can be turned into a very decent guitar with a decent fret job, decent set up, decent pickups and decent hardware.
Nope. Some electric guitars just doesn't resonate at all. Even some expensive ones (but as the price goes up they are more likely to not be complete rubbish). Stability is good for keeping tuning and so on but most electrics are pretty stable. Comfort is only influenced by shape and weight. The actual acoustic sound of the instrument is the important bit and you can hear the difference clearly when you play a whole string of the same instruments one after the other. I've done this. A fun and interesting experience. My opinion is that different pieces of wood (be it solid or multiple pieces) just have different acoustic properties and this is what ultimately makes or breaks the amplified sound.
TokyoP0P
warrenpridgeon wrote:
To further expand on this thinking, but in a different direction. Get off stage after having a blast and having made a bunch of mistakes... People will be like "EPIC GIG!". Get off stage where you played "well" but were super nervous because you were concentrating so hard to play well... "meh". lol
Quoted for absolute truth.
studmissile
Musicians and Joe Public, hear two different things when it comes to music!
singemonkey
Can the audience hear them? There are a bunch of components to your guitar sound - and the audience are far more likely to hear some that others. This isn't to say that they know what they're hearing - of course they don't. But the guitar sound will influence the impression that they get from it.
I remember as a kid I could hear the sound of the Beatles playing Rickenbackers and Gretsches through Vox amps. It was part of their sound. I didn't know what it was, but it was a distinctive sound. Likewise Buddy Holly with his Stratocasters through Fender amps.
But that sound is mostly about the scale-length of the guitar, the pickups, and the amplifier and loudspeakers. A Pacifica 212 with Bareknuckle pickups through a cranked JTM45 with confuse any of us in a blind test against a '62 Stratocaster played into the same amp. The main appeal of really high-end guitars are subtle details that make them thrilling to play - and your audience hears that.
Lookswise, nowdays non-guitar players aren't impressed by expensive guitars because they can't tell the difference between a vintage 335 and a Cort semi-hollow. Or a Zemaitis covered in mother-of-pearl, or a cheap copy covered in mother-of-toilet-seat.
Nitebob
+1 on what singemonkey said
The sound that got me interested in guitar playing was a quacky undersaddle pickup on a mini jumbo Cort...Now I know that is not the sound we want... ???
slyd
You're all spot-on.
My take on it, is ......
if you enjoy your instrument (physically and mentally), and are totally confident in it's ability to express YOU, without fail, then you will perform at your best, with the audience picking up on that . . . .. .
Many of the high-end instruments will deliver, and justify your confidence.
A lot of old reliable cheapies will also do this .... if you enjoy your instrument 8)
Pierre-Cronje
Visashi wrote:
Hi all,
I've been wondering lately about the relevancy of high end guitars. Man how I would love to own a Gretsch White Falcon! Or one of those insanely beautiful Duesenbergs. They sound incredible and look even more insanely hot. But, can the ordinary person in the crowd really hear that tone and appreciate it like the person playing it? Sure it plays like a dream.
But is it really worth paying all that money? Just a thought. :-\
On one of the Crossroads (Clapton) DVD's one of the guitarists plays trough a modified Super8 Cine projector. Excellent sound! So???????????????????????
Rescator
High end guitars are like a high end chicks .
They are not for everyone too.
exsanguinator
No they cant...
its in the fingers and style
Eddie vH is still Eddie... whether its a pawn shop special or a rare Rmil guitar
Ive seen Yngwie demo a cheap $99 made in china s/h strat before a show... and he sounds the same
Vai?...same thing
And lets not mention the sound output at different venues...sometimes even gold picks and cufflinks wont help a dime,but we can still hear the artists trademark through the k@k
Stoffeltoo
No they can't and in many cases don't care.
Depending on the venue, the audience is there for the jol.
To me it is a personal thing. My fender acoustic has been properly set up to increase the feel while playing, so also my squier and to me both sound perfect.
In many cases its not the instrument but the driver that makes the difference.
Why cart around expensive gear with the increased risk of damage and theft?
Secretly I crave a Martin or high end Taylor and would like to have a doodab Fender strat in my arsenal. Now I am satisfied with "cheapies" barring a Tokai LS92. My dream guitar of the LP's. Lekker to hold, play and caress.
Nuff said I'm rambling
DonRoos
Most audience can barely hear if your guitar is in tune, never mind if it is a top class guitar. I agree with all who say that it is all about you. If the guitar can make the sounds you want it to it makes no difference what it cost. Seasick Steve plays all sorts of strange guitars including his 3-string trans wonder and one made from Morris Minor hub caps! As long as it stays in tune, has proper intonation and does not rip your fingers to shreds then it is all good.
I watched a great local guitarist blow his valve Marshall amp during a performance and then finish the show on a Cube and managed to sound really good. Most did not even notice that he swapped amps.
I feel really uneasy about carrying expensive equipment round where it can be stolen, damaged or completely broken and much happier with a functional cheep guitar.
It was also stated that for an acoustic guitar it is different and I agree. But there again you get great guitars at really good prices and don't have to mortgage your house. My Cort was not that expensive but sounds awesome through a PA and gets the job done. I leave my vintage Ibanez 12-string safely at home.
