Hasie
Usually when I play on high gain, I only use power chords. It limits you to only the first and fifth interval of the key, but that is pretty obvious.
So recently I heard a heavy metal song in which the chords played sounded like minor chords. ???
Now my question is, can you play open chords on high gain without it sounding completely horrible?
If so, some guidance on guitar/amp settings will be grateful.
I usually don't turn the gain knob past 11 o'clock. The guitar volumes are on about 7/10 and I do not use any pedals in front the amp yet.
Will it work to maybe turn the volume on the guitar very low and maybe put an overdrive pedal in front of the amp(with very little gain)?
warrenpridgeon
Hasie wrote:
Usually when I play on high gain, I only use power chords. It limits you to only the first and fifth interval of the key, but that is pretty obvious.
So recently I heard a heavy metal song in which the chords played sounded like minor chords. ???
Now my question is, can you play open chords on high gain without it sounding completely horrible?
If so, some guidance on guitar/amp settings will be grateful.
I usually don't turn the gain knob past 11 o'clock. The guitar volumes are on about 7/10 and I do not use any pedals in front the amp yet.
Will it work to maybe turn the volume on the guitar very low and maybe put an overdrive pedal in front of the amp(with very little gain)?
I sometimes play open chords with a decent amount of gain... BUT I don't usually strum them. I often pick the notes one by one. Other techniques I've used have been to palm mute and pick through the chord. You've got to experiment with how much gain you use, and the EQ. Higher gain tends to hide you away in the mix if you use full chords.
GuitarDoge
If you have an amp with a proper high gain sound, and not muddy pickups, open chords sound really good with high gain. Even then you have to eq it right.
NorioDS
@Hasie, something Joe Satriani teaches is to identify the key tones of a chord and play just those.
Using that technique, you can sometimes get the sound of an exotic chord from just 2 or 3 notes.
I have the lesson lying around somewhere but check online for anything about chords from Satch. He's chord-crazy
warrenpridgeon
Norio wrote:
@Hasie, something Joe Satriani teaches is to identify the key tones of a chord and play just those.
Using that technique, you can sometimes get the sound of an exotic chord from just 2 or 3 notes.
I have the lesson lying around somewhere but check online for anything about chords from Satch. He's chord-crazy
Often "less is more" is true... So I'll sometimes pick 3 notes at once, using my fingers, giving me more of the chords flavour... but not all of the repeated notes you find in regular open chords.
ezietsman
Chords are just a few notes played together, be it 2, 3, 4 or more.
Playing chords with loads of gain shouldn't sound bad, but keep in mind that if your guitar is not perfectly tuned, the higher amounts of distortion is going to cause any out of tuneness to be more distinct ? This includes pressing down on the frets too hard and bending the strings to be sharp, especially on light strings like 10 guage or lighter. Also, when playing with high amounts of overdrive, you need to learn to mute the strings you are not playing. It'll sound rubbish if you don't play cleanly. Playing with overdrive requires cleaner playing than playing without, doubly so for heavy metal.
Hasie
Thank you for all the replies. Very informative.
I will have a look for the Satriani lesson and play around with the eq and other settings a bit.
The setup is decent: EMG707 actives into a Blackstar HT-5R.
I have been working on playing "cleanly" on high gain a lot lately (doing scales all over the fretboard while trying to keep noise to a minimum - it is quite difficult).
Fretting too hard is a problem, especially after I played with the acoustic
ezietsman
I have an HT5 too. I don't have active pickups though. Not all pickups gives the same amount of clarity with loads of overdrive but yours should be ok. With the gain below 12 o'clock I wouldn't consider it oversaturated yet. About the same as my 18 watt cranked to 9 or so. It'll come with practice.
V8
Hasie wrote:
Usually when I play on high gain, I only use power chords. It limits you to only the first and fifth interval of the key, but that is pretty obvious.
So recently I heard a heavy metal song in which the chords played sounded like minor chords. ???
If you are looking for some other chord shapes that (imo) sound good under high gain - have a look at Metallica's Orion, the intro and verse feature some interesting shapes I enjoyed. The first two minutes of this youtube tut will give you an idea (
Ez's & Norio's comments are spot-on. My 2c - I'd approach open chords with more of a 'dirty clean"/overdrive/crunch sound than a out and out metal distortion. More AC/DC or Led Zepplin than Metallica or Slipknot. If I'm not mistaken the HT5 comes with a little piece of card with some suggested settings on it for US crunch. UK gain, etc...?
Something like this :
https://www.blackstaramps.com/products/ht-5r/settings.php - I was messing around with one a while ago and thought what a good idea those setting were for a starting point!
Charlie4
Only two bands of the top of my head are Periphery and Opeth. Both bands often use fuller voicings at higher gain, especially Periphery. Full high gain chords you really need very open-sounding pickups as well as a more transparent high gain. The margin for muddiness gets smaller the higher up you move in gain. The amps that have a great high gain clarity are often a lot of $$$, such as Bogner, Diezel, Soldano etc.
This might work though:
I love metal but there is such a thing as too much gain. The Laney's that Opeth use still sound heavy yet they're not 5150 heavy.
Hasie
I have one of those cards with some suggested settings. Have played around with them. I just fiddle with the knobs until it sounds right to my ears.
Correct, there is a thing as too much gain. There is another post on the forum that points to a youtube vid of how to dial in your metal tone, without using "All the gain".
Charlie4
Another thing, a boost OD pedal is a must imo. Tightens up the gain meaning you get a more focused sound. You can then also turn down the gain as there would be no need to "compensate".
:rolleyes:
Hasie
Charlie4 wrote:
Another thing, a boost OD pedal is a must imo. Tightens up the gain meaning you get a more focused sound. You can then also turn down the gain as there would be no need to "compensate".
:rolleyes:
Thanks. I'm saving up for one. The overdrive on the HT5 is great, but to get a "true" metal sound, I currently have to turn the gain too high, and that creates its own set of challenges. Thinking of getting a Ibanez TS808. Or maybe support local boutique pedal builders. There was an OD pedal at the Guitar and Music expo called the Frankenscreamer. Which is basically a TS808 and whole lot of clipping settings combined.
el-guapo
There are a few other aspects to consider. Notoriously, pro (and professionally recorded) bands use less gain than our ears tend to think. Esp because you're usually trying to replicate hugely loud sounds at lower volumes so you pump the pre-amp gain whereas much of their sound (and gain) will come from cranked power-amps.
Also, don't forget that they may well have tracked two or more guitars together so that the triad is not being played on one guitar: this means it doesn't mush together as much.
Hasie
el guapo wrote:
There are a few other aspects to consider. Notoriously, pro (and professionally recorded) bands use less gain than our ears tend to think. Esp because you're usually trying to replicate hugely loud sounds at lower volumes so you pump the pre-amp gain whereas much of their sound (and gain) will come from cranked power-amps.
Also, don't forget that they may well have tracked two or more guitars together so that the triad is not being played on one guitar: this means it doesn't mush together as much.
Makes sense. One guitarist playing the third interval while the other is doing the power chords to form the tonic triad. The bass can also be used to either do the first or fifth interval as well.
Dreaming of having a soundproof room so that I can crank my amp's volume knob.
Charlie4
Hasie wrote:
Charlie4 wrote:
Another thing, a boost OD pedal is a must imo. Tightens up the gain meaning you get a more focused sound. You can then also turn down the gain as there would be no need to "compensate".
:rolleyes:
Thanks. I'm saving up for one. The overdrive on the HT5 is great, but to get a "true" metal sound, I currently have to turn the gain too high, and that creates its own set of challenges. Thinking of getting a Ibanez TS808. Or maybe support local boutique pedal builders. There was an OD pedal at the Guitar and Music expo called the Frankenscreamer. Which is basically a TS808 and whole lot of clipping settings combined.
I would recommend talking to Benjamin, as he would be able to steer you in the right direction. Handwired at great prices. I also prefer supporting the small business wherever possible. :yup:
http://www.craigamps.net/products---pedals.html
Hasie wrote:
el guapo wrote:
There are a few other aspects to consider. Notoriously, pro (and professionally recorded) bands use less gain than our ears tend to think. Esp because you're usually trying to replicate hugely loud sounds at lower volumes so you pump the pre-amp gain whereas much of their sound (and gain) will come from cranked power-amps.
Also, don't forget that they may well have tracked two or more guitars together so that the triad is not being played on one guitar: this means it doesn't mush together as much.
Makes sense. One guitarist playing the third interval while the other is doing the power chords to form the tonic triad. The bass can also be used to either do the first or fifth interval as well.
Dreaming of having a soundproof room so that I can crank my amp's volume knob.
This is probably medium-high gain at best and sounds HEAVY.
Valvestate and badass:
Lasse Lammert does a ton of great high gain stuff.
Ola Englund as well:
Hasie
Thanks Charlie. Will go and watch/listen to those tonight. I don't want to scare the folks at work. ?
Jayhell
I think everything is said that needed to be said, but ja. I like the sound of open chords more than power chords but my style is more medium to medium high gain. Crank the amp, tame that OD pedal, turn the guitar open and strum! that's my recipe. Oh, and cut that bass, it makes it muddy. Never underestimate the power of mids, more is less when it comes to gain, you know the story... Rock on!
Shibbibilybob
My experience with this (keeping in mind that I've not played electric guitar in a few years, and I am was a lot worse than I am now) is that the issue with open chords would be that you have no way of muting the open strings once you're done with them, and they tend to kinda bleed into your chord change.
I expect you may find things sound a whole lot better as you experiment with other full chords, but not open ones, up the neck.
For instance, you may have more control playing the C shape of Dmajor than an open D major.
Have a google for the CAGED system if this is new to you. It's a bit of a stretch at first, but it's basically just moving your open chords up the neck, with your index finger barring , like a moving nut.
Hasie
Thanks. I am familiar with a few of the barre chord shapes. Will look up the rest and try that if I struggle using the open chords.
