Neil-Nitro
Hey guys.
So if you were playing in church and you needed something digital which could be either a pedal or an amp with an emulated out that goes straight into the PA, what would you use?
Also if you needed a guitar which works well in praise and worship music and covers a lot of ground what would you use?
It seems that our church prefers things to be digital and are not really big on putting a mic on an amp.... ☹
Chocklit_Thunda
On a budget: zoom G5
It's got hundreds of amp, cap and pedal models and can go straight to PA. Blush built in tube booster so you don't lose the tubeyness....
(Also the best part of that sentence was that the iPhone predictive text thinks "tubeyness" is a word!)
If you're part of those super rich churches, a kemper, AxeFX or some other profiler.
Guitar wise, an HSS Strat covers a lot of tonal ground.
Rabbit
I have a Zoom G3 which has pretty much the same guts as the G5.
I bought it for church use because it had a balanced out with optional ground lift, so it it really easy to run through a PA (no DI box required!). You can also simultaneously run it into an amp for monitoring, if required.
It is extremely versatile and gives awesome sounds for any style of music- a big plus in a church situation where one needs to quickly switch from loud praise to quiet worship and back. The knobs on the front make it easy to dial sounds in (though the use of multiple pages each with only three settings can occasionally get a little annoying, but this is only a small issue).
And best of all, they are being advertised for R2000 by some suppliers (though the recent Rand nose dive will probably affect that ☹ )
I realise that this might sound more like an advert than someone trying to offer helpful advice, but I bought my G3 for the same application you are looking at, and it has really worked out well for me.
Rabbit
Add an aside, my take on why churches do not like miking amps:
Church halls are built so that the sound from the front (the pulpit) carries to all parts of the hall as well as possible to facilitate preaching. This means that even the monitor mix for a worship team can be loud enough to completely dominate the house mix leading to excessive house volume. So even a relatively small guitar amp can easily cause problems with the overall mix because it in not under the sound team's control.
This is one of the reasons electronic drum kits are so popular in churches - they reduce the overall volume of the worship team, thereby avoiding having to turn everything else up to deafening volume to compensate. Even when an acoustic kit is used, it is banished to a box, but this tends to isolate the drummer from the rest of the church. (I have been there and the drummer really is not part of the congregation - you cannot even hear what the rest of the worship team is saying unless they speak into a mic and nobody can hear what you say... But that it a whole other story!).
Neil-Nitro
Chocklit_Thunda wrote:
On a budget: zoom G5
It's got hundreds of amp, cap and pedal models and can go straight to PA. Blush built in tube booster so you don't lose the tubeyness....
(Also the best part of that sentence was that the iPhone predictive text thinks "tubeyness" is a word!)
If you're part of those super rich churches, a kemper, AxeFX or some other profiler.
Guitar wise, an HSS Strat covers a lot of tonal ground.
Thanks man. I appreciate the advice. The G5 looks great. Ofcourse a Kemper would be better ?
Neil-Nitro
Rabbit wrote:
I have a Zoom G3 which has pretty much the same guts as the G5.
I bought it for church use because it had a balanced out with optional ground lift, so it it really easy to run through a PA (no DI box required!). You can also simultaneously run it into an amp for monitoring, if required.
It is extremely versatile and gives awesome sounds for any style of music- a big plus in a church situation where one needs to quickly switch from loud praise to quiet worship and back. The knobs on the front make it easy to dial sounds in (though the use of multiple pages each with only three settings can occasionally get a little annoying, but this is only a small issue).
And best of all, they are being advertised for R2000 by some suppliers (though the recent Rand nose dive will probably affect that ☹ )
I realise that this might sound more like an advert than someone trying to offer helpful advice, but I bought my G3 for the same application you are looking at, and it has really worked out well for me.
The G3 also looks like pretty good value. Could you maybe elaborate on how you set it up to work for you? It is quite smaller than the G5 so I'm just wondering if less switches at your feet might be an issue? Thanks for the advice!
Rabbit
I just set a couple of sounds that I liked up and then switched them between songs.
I like to use an amp model as the basis for the majority of my patches because they give a fuller feeling to the sound. Then I add other effects as required. I like adding a boost or overdrive pedal for dirty sounds and some chorus for clean sounds (I love the stereo chorus!). The noise gates are also really useful, the delays are great for a U2 feel, and I enjoy playing around with the parametric equaliser. That said, many of the presets are also rather good (though sadly, many are just there to demonstrate some weird effect), and there is a growing library of patches on the internet.
Zoom claims insanely fast patch switching on their web page, and I am inclined to believe them. The patch/bank shift process works well for me. I wear size 10 Cat shoes which are fairly wide, and the spacing of the switches has never bothered me. I have an external expression pedal for wah control because the pedal on the G3X looks tiny.
Should one need to switch sounds during a song a, the patch-switch speed should make that a breeze. Just be sure to stop playing because the super-fast patch change makes the sound jump from one patch to the next instantaneously and it sounds weird. Otherwise, one could just have an effect which is switched in or out during the song. The main example here would be additional drive for a lead or chorus. I have also used the external expression pedal as an input volume control to vary the drive.
There is rather useful computer software which makes it a breeze to set the patches up in an appropriate order. Otherwise, the onboard patch-swap function also does the trick.
I have also set the tuner up to mute the guitar, and this is really useful between songs. I can both be sure that I do not bother anybody and check my tuning at the same time. The relevant switch needs to be held for a second to enter tuner mode, but I feel that this is a good thing because there is no chance of accidentally muting myself (which might happen with a separate tuner switch, for example).
I use the balanced output to run to the sound system and usually use the other output to drive a small monitor amp I have. In this way, I have an independent monitor which does not affect anything else (I adjust the volume on the monitor amp to avoid meeting with the overall mix).
Again I bet that I sound like a Zoom marketer, but that is really not the case. I did my homework before buying my G3, and there did not seem to be anything comparable at that price. Having owned it for a while has only made me more enthusiastic about it. It obviously has limitations, but so far, they have not been things which have affected me.
I hope that this helps!
thrasher
If you can get a 2nd hand line6 pod x3 live id recommend that.
I used to own one and it was very versatile, hated the tone when played thru a guitar amp tho, sounds real good thru a power amp or a decent PA system!
If you can find one for a good price grab it, otherwise that zoom G5 if you can get it for a good price.
I used to play in my church youth band, but i used a jackson V, any guitar will do man, get what you like and what feels good to play, shape your tone with whatever multifx/modeler you get, try to get a guitar with a coil tap option
just my 2cents.
Banditman
The amp part's been well covered by everyone so I'll just back Chocklit Thunda & agree that if you only have one guitar, an HSS Strat or similar type from other manufacturers should cover most tonal territory you need.
beardedmoose
Vox Tonelab EX effects Unit. I would Use a Pedal friendly 15w Head Such as the Ibanez TS15H unit through a two by 12 Cab. As for the guitar, i would put my pride in my pocket and use versatile guitar Such as the Ibanez FR Standard or or Maybe a HSS strat. I would probably opt for more of a traditional option though ( knowing myself) such as the Gretcsh G5620T-CB Electromatic® CENTER-BLOCK ( For that Wholesome sound ) ?
Thanx dude, awesome thought experiment for an otherwise dull monday morning!! :goodtimes:
Neil-Nitro
Rabbit wrote:
I just set a couple of sounds that I liked up and then switched them between songs.
I like to use an amp model as the basis for the majority of my patches because they give a fuller feeling to the sound. Then I add other effects as required. I like adding a boost or overdrive pedal for dirty sounds and some chorus for clean sounds (I love the stereo chorus!). The noise gates are also really useful, the delays are great for a U2 feel, and I enjoy playing around with the parametric equaliser. That said, many of the presets are also rather good (though sadly, many are just there to demonstrate some weird effect), and there is a growing library of patches on the internet.
Zoom claims insanely fast patch switching on their web page, and I am inclined to believe them. The patch/bank shift process works well for me. I wear size 10 Cat shoes which are fairly wide, and the spacing of the switches has never bothered me. I have an external expression pedal for wah control because the pedal on the G3X looks tiny.
Should one need to switch sounds during a song a, the patch-switch speed should make that a breeze. Just be sure to stop playing because the super-fast patch change makes the sound jump from one patch to the next instantaneously and it sounds weird. Otherwise, one could just have an effect which is switched in or out during the song. The main example here would be additional drive for a lead or chorus. I have also used the external expression pedal as an input volume control to vary the drive.
There is rather useful computer software which makes it a breeze to set the patches up in an appropriate order. Otherwise, the onboard patch-swap function also does the trick.
I have also set the tuner up to mute the guitar, and this is really useful between songs. I can both be sure that I do not bother anybody and check my tuning at the same time. The relevant switch needs to be held for a second to enter tuner mode, but I feel that this is a good thing because there is no chance of accidentally muting myself (which might happen with a separate tuner switch, for example).
I use the balanced output to run to the sound system and usually use the other output to drive a small monitor amp I have. In this way, I have an independent monitor which does not affect anything else (I adjust the volume on the monitor amp to avoid meeting with the overall mix).
Again I bet that I sound like a Zoom marketer, but that is really not the case. I did my homework before buying my G3, and there did not seem to be anything comparable at that price. Having owned it for a while has only made me more enthusiastic about it. It obviously has limitations, but so far, they have not been things which have affected me.
I hope that this helps!
Very helpful! Thanks you.
Neil-Nitro
thrasher wrote:
If you can get a 2nd hand line6 pod x3 live id recommend that.
I used to own one and it was very versatile, hated the tone when played thru a guitar amp tho, sounds real good thru a power amp or a decent PA system!
If you can find one for a good price grab it, otherwise that zoom G5 if you can get it for a good price.
I used to play in my church youth band, but i used a jackson V, any guitar will do man, get what you like and what feels good to play, shape your tone with whatever multifx/modeler you get, try to get a guitar with a coil tap option
just my 2cents.
I used to play a Kelly at our youth ?. Thanks for the advice man.
Neil-Nitro
Banditman wrote:
The amp part's been well covered by everyone so I'll just back Chocklit Thunda & agree that if you only have one guitar, an HSS Strat or similar type from other manufacturers should cover most tonal territory you need.
I always loved HSS configuration. Appreciate the input.
Neil-Nitro
beardedmoose wrote:
Vox Tonelab EX effects Unit. I would Use a Pedal friendly 15w Head Such as the Ibanez TS15H unit through a two by 12 Cab. As for the guitar, i would put my pride in my pocket and use versatile guitar Such as the Ibanez FR Standard or or Maybe a HSS strat. I would probably opt for more of a traditional option though ( knowing myself) such as the Gretcsh G5620T-CB Electromatic® CENTER-BLOCK ( For that Wholesome sound ) ?
Thanx dude, awesome thought experiment for an otherwise dull monday morning!! :goodtimes:
:goodtimes: Glad to brighten your morning. The FR Standard huh? Interesting choice there. Could you elaborate on why that particular model?
beardedmoose
Neil Nitro wrote:
beardedmoose wrote:
Vox Tonelab EX effects Unit. I would Use a Pedal friendly 15w Head Such as the Ibanez TS15H unit through a two by 12 Cab. As for the guitar, i would put my pride in my pocket and use versatile guitar Such as the Ibanez FR Standard or or Maybe a HSS strat. I would probably opt for more of a traditional option though ( knowing myself) such as the Gretcsh G5620T-CB Electromatic® CENTER-BLOCK ( For that Wholesome sound ) ?
Thanx dude, awesome thought experiment for an otherwise dull monday morning!! :goodtimes:
:goodtimes: Glad to brighten your morning. The FR Standard huh? Interesting choice there. Could you elaborate on why that particular model?
Well that specific model has a very interesting pickup configuration. the neck pickup is reminiscent of a telecasters but slightly warmer and the humbucker in the bridge is perfectly sought out to match . Both Pups tho has a beautiful midrange that you need when playing rhythm ( Being in a churchband i doubt you'll be scorching any solo's?) And to boot it's quite the classy looking guitar. a real head turner. It's a very non traditional choice but sometimes function is more important than looks at the end of the day. oh and that neck...... not my normal choice but what a joy.
rikus
Does it HAVE to be digital or just be able to go straight into the PA? Do you have an existing pedal setup? If you do and it only needs to be able to straight to the desk I would suggest something like a Tech 21 Liverpool at the end of the board and go straight into the PA. Simple to set up and sounds good.
A Tele is perfect for P&W. With a Telecaster, a Voxy type amp and dotted eight delay you'll have most of the songs covered!! ?
6Pack
+1 for Tele's (especially the thinlines) and Gretsches but hey it's all about taste ? The hollow bodies just seems to add that something extra that goes well with reverb and delay.
Neil-Nitro
beardedmoose wrote:
Neil Nitro wrote:
beardedmoose wrote:
Vox Tonelab EX effects Unit. I would Use a Pedal friendly 15w Head Such as the Ibanez TS15H unit through a two by 12 Cab. As for the guitar, i would put my pride in my pocket and use versatile guitar Such as the Ibanez FR Standard or or Maybe a HSS strat. I would probably opt for more of a traditional option though ( knowing myself) such as the Gretcsh G5620T-CB Electromatic® CENTER-BLOCK ( For that Wholesome sound ) ?
Thanx dude, awesome thought experiment for an otherwise dull monday morning!! :goodtimes:
:goodtimes: Glad to brighten your morning. The FR Standard huh? Interesting choice there. Could you elaborate on why that particular model?
Well that specific model has a very interesting pickup configuration. the neck pickup is reminiscent of a telecasters but slightly warmer and the humbucker in the bridge is perfectly sought out to match . Both Pups tho has a beautiful midrange that you need when playing rhythm ( Being in a churchband i doubt you'll be scorching any solo's?) And to boot it's quite the classy looking guitar. a real head turner. It's a very non traditional choice but sometimes function is more important than looks at the end of the day. oh and that neck...... not my normal choice but what a joy.
Yeah no scorching solos! Melodic ones yes. The Ibanez you mentioned is the FR365 right? I also love Ibanez necks. They play really smooth. I'm no shredder though ?
Neil-Nitro
Rikus wrote:
Does it HAVE to be digital or just be able to go straight into the PA? Do you have an existing pedal setup? If you do and it only needs to be able to straight to the desk I would suggest something like a Tech 21 Liverpool at the end of the board and go straight into the PA. Simple to set up and sounds good.
A Tele is perfect for P&W. With a Telecaster, a Voxy type amp and dotted eight delay you'll have most of the songs covered!! ?
Thanks man. I will definitely check it out. I guess as long as it sounds decent and doesnt contribute to high stage volume it should do fine. I do have an existing pedal setup yes.
warrenpridgeon
I play in the praise and worship team in church and have for a number of years now.
I used to use individual stomps into a Marshall DSL 401 combo. But, we started a second "campus" and the church hall was terrible acoustically (and still is). So I could never run the amp at the volume required to get the tone I wanted... and running it through a hot plate or some other attenuator felt wrong... hehe.
It needed repairs at one stage and I switched over to my Boss GT8 direct into the PA. This worked out great because we use inear monitoring so I had been monitoring my amp through my inears ANYWAYS.
What I found was I had a LOT more versatility with the MFX (multi effects unit) and I was actually getting a better tone/sound than with my DSL 401.
Later I sold my stomps and upgraded to something a little newer. I got a Line 6 POD HD500X. The amp models respond better to volume changes on the guitar and different string attacks.
I used to play a Epiphone Les Paul, into which I later put an EMG 81 and 85 combo... This guitar dropped and damaged the neck. I subsequently got a PRS SE Custom 24. What is cool about the guitar is it has a coil split... this allows me to get "spankier" sounds out of it (not QUITE strat, but more towards that than the humbucker sound). So I have the versatility of the humbucker for drive and big leads, but I also have the more spanky sounds of the coil split/tap for clean chicka waka rhythm bits.
So... check that out as an option also ?
