Improv approach

acousticman

Hey guys, so I'm a guitar teacher and was wondering your guys approach to teaching or learning improv.

I find some get into it easily and others struggle, especially the classical guys.
I also have some students that are doing rock school, they play rock really well can do some impressive shredding but then struggle to say improv over jazz, highlighting the chord changes, targeting the chord tones etc. it's like a whole other world when you just used to corresponding key with scale/modes.

I'll give some of my ideas later but want to open some discussion on your approaches. What's your improv approach?

Stoffeltoo

Firstly I have no formal music training and what I know I have either learnt from the internet, fellow muso's who were willing to share and some thing quite by accident. So what I explain might not be accurate in music terms

My approach is this:
Know your chords and at in least three positions on the guitar neck
The most important scales IMHO are the major, minor and pentatonic scales

My recipe is this: For example
Chord A 1st position Fret two strings 2,3,4. (Root 3rd string second fret)
Now go to the "second position i.e the barred A F5 S6,2,1/ F6 S3 and F7 S5&4. Root note F5,S6 and F7,S4.
Already two scales over two octaves to play with.

Alternatively play a D chord on the ninth fret "third position" and follow the C chord arpeggio

Hope it makes sense :?

Keira-WitherKay

i got one word for you ok maybe two ? "think modal"

yes i too teach and currently perform Jazz , acoustic world music and yes just taken on a country guitar gig since i enjoy chicken pickin ...................

but once i teach students the basics of modes ...EVEN ROCK PLAYERS (what do you think satriani and vai and many more base their playing on) and how to apply them (major and natural minor modes /harmonic minor and jazz melodic minor) they find that instead of just playing a song in one scale , like when using minor pentatonic and just re-using the same 5 notes over and over .... once they armed with modal approach and of course as a teacher you know that comes after some other theory first , the rock players are hugely empowered and play amazing solo's

*** to anyone reading this ....... for some reason in music playing world .... Theory and modes especially is seen as so complex and kinda "dark magic" well it isn't.... so "come to the dark side" and it will improve your playing and understanding almost from the very start.

playing guitar is a skill that can be learnt and taught and has rules and a language , yes one can ignore this ...and learn solo's note for note and just play them back from memory .. that just requires a good ear or access to TAB's these days most solo's are available online However that is just learning parrot fashion and not necessarily understanding what you playing or why

but in the 21st century .... with rock schools and hundreds of music schools/university courses in contemporary or jazz NOT just classical and skilled private tutors available locally there is no need to ignore this anymore ..... it's an age where if you want to do anything career/golf/personal gym trainer you find a tutor/guide and follow a program for it ...so why not music

But to improvise in the true sense of the word you need to understand what you playing and follow the rules of music (theory) and you can solo over anything and sound amazing even on pieces you never seen before.

it's easier than you think ..... promise ?

beardedmoose

Keira WitherKay wrote: i got one word for you ok maybe two ? "think modal"

yes i too teach and currently perform Jazz , acoustic world music and yes just taken on a country guitar gig since i enjoy chicken pickin ...................

but once i teach students the basics of modes ...EVEN ROCK PLAYERS (what do you think satriani and vai and many more base their playing on) and how to apply them (major and natural minor modes /harmonic minor and jazz melodic minor) they find that instead of just playing a song in one scale , like when using minor pentatonic and just re-using the same 5 notes over and over .... once they armed with modal approach and of course as a teacher you know that comes after some other theory first , the rock players are hugely empowered and play amazing solo's

*** to anyone reading this ....... for some reason in music playing world .... Theory and modes especially is seen as so complex and kinda "dark magic" well it isn't.... so "come to the dark side" and it will improve your playing and understanding almost from the very start.

playing guitar is a skill that can be learnt and taught and has rules and a language , yes one can ignore this ...and learn solo's note for note and just play them back from memory .. that just requires a good ear or access to TAB's these days most solo's are available online However that is just learning parrot fashion and not necessarily understanding what you playing or why

but in the 21st century .... with rock schools and hundreds of music schools/university courses in contemporary or jazz NOT just classical and skilled private tutors available locally there is no need to ignore this anymore ..... it's an age where if you want to do anything career/golf/personal gym trainer you find a tutor/guide and follow a program for it ...so why not music

But to improvise in the true sense of the word you need to understand what you playing and follow the rules of music (theory) and you can solo over anything and sound amazing even on pieces you never seen before.

it's easier than you think ..... promise ?

As i agree with Keira over here.. Modes are Magic.. But I think knowing your chords on at least 3 positions on the the neck is essential for chord progressions .. then for improvising .. Pentatonic and Major scales are key... Think Neil young... But at the end of the day it's what you wanna improvise that makes the difference if your gonna improvise over jazz then mixolydian modes are essential. Blues.. Dorian Modes... but hey.. my humble opinion.

acousticman

Good input from everyone, I was hoping there would be more discussion.
I agree modes are great as well as pentatonic and/or knowing major/minor scales etc.
Obviously the more available at your fingertips to command the better, as long as we are commanding the scales and the scales are not commanding us ? The understanding of chord tones is also good, like knowing the notes to target over chord progressions, being able to highlight the chord changes effectively with voice leading etc.

I find that a lot of people just learn their modes as relating to a key, thinking like '1 big scale' without considering the nature of the individual modes and how they function harmonically e.g the only difference between the ionian mode/major scale and mixolydian is the 7th note, the mixolydian can be understood as a major/ionian scale with the flattened 7th which tells us that the mixolydian functions as a dominant and therefore works as a mode over dominant type chords and their extensions (i.e. g mixolydian over G7. G9, G13 - all functioning as dominant chords) we know dorian, phrygian and aeolian function as minor modes due to the flattened 3rd and though the choice generally being related to which minor in the harmonic structure still retains its own minor flavour. The popular choice being dorian over all minor type chords and extensions. Ionian over major type chords even though lydian is often prefferred for the sharpened 4th note so as not to encounter the well know 'avoid note' as the jazz musos will know.

So lydian/ionian over chords that function harmonically as majors, dorian over minor types, mixolydian over dominant types and some good old locrian for those half diminished chords that tend to sneak in :?

Of course this is just dealing with the major system whereas modes can also be worked out on the melodic and harmonic minor which spices things up a little more. Sorry the lengthy reply, maybe I should construct a more structured post sometime, but just sharing my 5 cents. Keep jamming my good fellow musos ?

6Pack

acousticman wrote: Hey guys, so I'm a guitar teacher...

Hey acousticman,

Where do you live/teach?

acousticman

Hi 6pack

I live in Cape Town, close to Muizenburg area. Used to teach for Cape Town Academy of Music now just teaching subject music pupils from local high schools and privately around the area. Where are you?

6Pack

I'm in JHB sadly so it would be a bit of a drive for lessons ?

Thanks for the info above. Must admit I only caught about half of that but it's the kind of thing I would like to get into more.