Do you consider Tokai guitars counterfeits?

Tokai-SA · 2015-01-14T21:31:19+00:00

As far as I'm aware a counterfeit is a guitar, watch, bag, etc, that attempts to defraud the consumer into believing they're buying a product made by Nike, R...

Do you consider Tokai guitars counterfeits?

singemonkey

Bigsby makes reproductions now. But I don't think they come cheap.

Also, there are quite a few fake Tokais out there. But most of them are in Canada where they were imported from Korea. There's even a name for them: Fakais.

Ironstine

You are all absolutely correct, if you were to blur the name on that bigsby i would argue to the grave that its a Tokai love rock.
Bearded moose, I have no clue wtf youre on about, i even admitted that Tokai seem like well made instruments?
And once again.... i dont care what quality Tokais are, that is not the "debate" at hand.
in fact why was this question posed in the first place?

singemonkey

Ironstine wrote: You are all absolutely correct, if you were to blur the name on that bigsby i would argue to the grave that its a Tokai love rock.

lol. Obvious troll is obvious.

studmissile

At one stage I thought Gibson had left South Africa?

proze

Ironstine wrote:in fact why was this question posed in the first place?

Did you read the thread?

beardedmoose

Ironstine wrote: You are all absolutely correct, if you were to blur the name on that bigsby i would argue to the grave that its a Tokai love rock.
Bearded moose, I have no clue wtf youre on about, i even admitted that Tokai seem like well made instruments?
And once again.... i dont care what quality Tokais are, that is not the "debate" at hand.
in fact why was this question posed in the first place?

Hey Ironstine

Chill dude dont get agro . This is a fun loving peaceful Forum.

:goodtimes:

Banditman

Beaut of a post, Singe. Hey Lance, there's your court case counter-argument re: copying and original design. Singe'll take a nice guitar in lieu of cash payment for his expertise. ?

StefStoep

How about this.....neither copies or counterfeits.

Tokai have built various Gibson and Fender replica models over the years .......Replicas! (Yes i know that is just a fancier word for copies)

schizo

First time i've heard of Tokai guits.....reminds me a lot of Rob Chapman guitars, http://www.chapmanguitars.co.uk/guitars/ml-3-rc/

pretty cool specs, chambered body, mahogany etc etc....

Ironstine

Nah dude I am chilled..... I'm all about the love, in fact if you want have a circle jerk over Tokai i'll even donate the Marie biscuits... well Pick & Pay copies anyway..

singemonkey

Banditman wrote: Beaut of a post, Singe. Hey Lance, there's your court case counter-argument re: copying and original design. Singe'll take a nice guitar in lieu of cash payment for his expertise. ?

If he wins based on something I said, he can give me a fat discount on one of these ?

Otherwise I'll just have to get it with one of these ☹

NorioDS

Ironstine wrote: Nah dude I am chilled..... I'm all about the love, in fact if you want have a circle jerk over Tokai i'll even donate the Marie biscuits... well Pick & Pay copies anyway..

Rule #1 of GFSA: Be nice. You're sucking at this rule. So badly.

Banned for 1 month to calm down.

Banditman

studmissile wrote: At one stage I thought Gibson had left South Africa?

They either completely did, or for all intent and purposes did. Then they thought about all those poor South African musos and teenagers who wouldn't be able to get an official Gibson and came back again. :?

serven

Just a thought (don't remember reading it here)...

I get/understand the argument (all of it from all sides), but it personally just feels funny to me to get worked up over someone making an instrument the same as someone else. (Note the feel word there: I don't know or really care if it is right/wrong to copy it). I come from a family and upbringing of classical instruments like violins, pianos, cellos and that sort of thing. I never thought/understood/knew about the "guitar design" complications of electric guitars before I didn't start really playing one two years ago. If two years ago you would've told me about the Gibson v Tokai argument I would've looked at you funny and said "how on earth do a person get worked up because one company makes an instrument the same way that another company does". Now? I don't know, I think mainly I don't care and will probably support whatever company can give me the most (quality, tone, value, extras whatever) for my money. I don't really have a moral problem with one company copying another company's results - it just feels like trends.

All DAWs work more or less the same and start adding features that people like about the other DAWs (it seems to me). It's not like they are pirating the software, they are adding features that people like in software. This is vaguely reminiscent of the iPhone / Galaxy screaming. I believe the guy who gets there first (or does the first design) naturally gets an advantage with being able to sell that type of product first, create customer loyalty and so on. If someone else comes along and manages to create the same product with their own methods/tools/policies/staff/lower markups/etc. for cheaper, they should naturally get that advantage to counter the other. In the ever fast-changing industry that I am in as a career (computers and tech) this is fairly common and mostly the only people really filing lawsuits or making a lot of noise about it are the really massive companies with money to burn on lawyers to try and get ahead by pushing the competition down.

That being said, this is just my own opinion. I'd probably buy a Tokai before a Gibson simply because I'd get more for the money that I work hard for and what I have heard/felt/read is good. Then again I don't really buy what I believe is overpriced branded clothing. Paying more for brand for the sake of "name" seems somewhat stupid to me if you're not a multi-millionaire - it must be justified by a real benefit in the actual product, not just a name/logo. If a KIA is more reliable/comfortable/faster/better than a Rolls Royce I'd like to believe that I'd have the responsibility, intelligence and common-sense and self-control to buy the KIA instead - and I am fairly sure if KIA could make a car like a Rolls Royce they'd probably do it ?

JW

NO!!!!! I feel it says proudly TOKAI on the headstock!! I never get confused between the 2 brands either!!They are each their own respective brand.

beardedmoose

Norio wrote:
Ironstine wrote: Nah dude I am chilled..... I'm all about the love, in fact if you want have a circle jerk over Tokai i'll even donate the Marie biscuits... well Pick & Pay copies anyway..
Rule #1 of GFSA: Be nice. You're sucking at this rule. So badly.

Banned for 1 month to calm down.

:goodtimes:

Banditman

Serven you've just raised a point that no-one else has (unless it's in the 1 or 2 pages I skimmed past :-[). We don't hear about orchestral instrument makers suing each other over the fact that one trumpet/tuba/french horn looks like another. Let's stick even closer to home: that one violin/cello/double bass looks like another, right down to the finishes. I can't recall acoustic guitar makers having this bun fight either. So why the hysteria from some quarters over electric guitars? Suing over fakes - copies that claim to be the real thing - yes, do that. But suing over the shape? Hm. Reminds me of Harley in the '80s first trying to sue anyone for making a cruiser with a v-twin, then trying to patent the sound of the engine.

They eventually grew up and gave up.

NorioDS

Banditman wrote: Reminds me of Harley in the '80s first trying to sue anyone for making a cruiser with a v-twin, then trying to patent the sound of the engine.

They did get a trademark on the sound. And it is quite a different sound.

I do believe there's a difference between the classical instruments and electric guitars.

The latter are bought for status. That's pretty key.

It's a critical selling point for Gibsons & Fenders.

If their only selling point was quality, they'd have tanked by now. Way too much quality competition at lower price points.

That said, I'm not a status-buying kinda guy. I'd rather go for value than status.

Which is why I love my Ibanez eye-gougers and would definitely get a Tokai over a Gibson. (Especially after actually playing a Tokai once - thanks Joel!)

beardedmoose

Norio wrote:
Banditman wrote: Reminds me of Harley in the '80s first trying to sue anyone for making a cruiser with a v-twin, then trying to patent the sound of the engine.
They did get a trademark on the sound. And it is quite a different sound.

I do believe there's a difference between the classical instruments and electric guitars.

The latter are bought for status. That's pretty key.

It's a critical selling point for Gibsons & Fenders.

If their only selling point was quality, they'd have tanked by now. Way too much quality competition at lower price points.

That said, I'm not a status-buying kinda guy. I'd rather go for value than status.

Which is why I love my Ibanez eye-gougers and would definitely get a Tokai over a Gibson. (Especially after actually playing a Tokai once - thanks Joel!)

I would love to read some more on classical guitar "status" which brands are rad etc... I own a 1979 Ibanez Classical Concerto which is in Prisitine condition. But i have no further knowledge of classicals...

Somebody start a thread.

studmissile

Banditman wrote:
studmissile wrote: At one stage I thought Gibson had left South Africa?
They either completely did, or for all intent and purposes did. Then they thought about all those poor South African musos and teenagers who wouldn't be able to get an official Gibson and came back again. :?

Tx, makes me wonder why Gibson is targeting such a small market so aggressively or why they have such little faith in their own product?