Do you consider Tokai guitars counterfeits?

Tokai-SA · 2015-01-14T21:31:19+00:00

As far as I'm aware a counterfeit is a guitar, watch, bag, etc, that attempts to defraud the consumer into believing they're buying a product made by Nike, R...

Do you consider Tokai guitars counterfeits?

NorioDS

singemonkey wrote: Here's to Gibson's 'original' Les Paul body shape. And while I'm talking about it, here's to Fender's 'original' headstock design.

Oh. Here's Bigsby's guitar for Merle Travis from 1948 before either company had a solid body electric. Of course they would have seen it. Luckily, those companies were all about originality:

BURN! ?

beardedmoose

Well done on the bigsby "strato paul" whahaha.

Ironstine wrote: I only had issues with my les paul after i had it set up by a luthier....
The issue here is not about quality of either Gibson or Tokai. From what i can tell Tokai's are made really well.
Gibson are TOTALLY overpriced, but that is not the issue either.
Many car manufacturers have changed ownership etc, and i don't hear people discussing if its still a REAL (insert car)
A les paul was original way back when it was designed, so how is that no longer original? Is there a statue of limitations on originality?

I went into a music store keen to get a new guitar, i played a few Tokais, some Charvels, LTD EC-1000 etc, all les paul copys. I then later on bought a gibson les paul, and guess which guitar i prefer the most?
Fender Stratocaster.

As for the above comment ... It is probably a real Gibson... Because it says so on the headstock... But if lets look at the VOS models Gibson manufactured... Vintage Original Spec.... Wont you agree that it's a copy of a vintage model...

Gibson's are Gibson's and Tokai's are Tokai's whatever... But dont think you are going to insult Tokai.... If you dont like the way it feels rather say that.. Dont hate on a company that has some of the most skilled luthiers in the world in their employ.... That my friend is not cool.

Heres a challenge for you. Take a Fender Modern Player (Chinese) and Compare it to Tokai's Chinese models ( You can tell by the 3 screw truss rod plate. Opposed to the 2 screws on the Japanese models . and do a quick quality check...

There is no comparison. Tokai's work and build ethic is unmatched.

*Drops Mic*

Charlie4

Damn Singe, you ended this debate. That argument is what Harvey Specter would have used to maul the opposition.

Very insightful. Well now we know that Tokai is like totes unoriginal. They copy guys that copy other guys. All we need now is someone who copies Tokai. Copy-ception. ?

NorioDS

Charlie4 wrote: That argument is what Harvey Specter would have used to maul the opposition.

ROFLMAO! Love the reference. Quite apt, too ?

Wizard

I think there needs to be an identical copy of that Bigsby. It's beautiful!

singemonkey

Bigsby makes reproductions now. But I don't think they come cheap.

Also, there are quite a few fake Tokais out there. But most of them are in Canada where they were imported from Korea. There's even a name for them: Fakais.

Ironstine

You are all absolutely correct, if you were to blur the name on that bigsby i would argue to the grave that its a Tokai love rock.
Bearded moose, I have no clue wtf youre on about, i even admitted that Tokai seem like well made instruments?
And once again.... i dont care what quality Tokais are, that is not the "debate" at hand.
in fact why was this question posed in the first place?

singemonkey

Ironstine wrote: You are all absolutely correct, if you were to blur the name on that bigsby i would argue to the grave that its a Tokai love rock.

lol. Obvious troll is obvious.

studmissile

At one stage I thought Gibson had left South Africa?

proze

Ironstine wrote:in fact why was this question posed in the first place?

Did you read the thread?

beardedmoose

Ironstine wrote: You are all absolutely correct, if you were to blur the name on that bigsby i would argue to the grave that its a Tokai love rock.
Bearded moose, I have no clue wtf youre on about, i even admitted that Tokai seem like well made instruments?
And once again.... i dont care what quality Tokais are, that is not the "debate" at hand.
in fact why was this question posed in the first place?

Hey Ironstine

Chill dude dont get agro . This is a fun loving peaceful Forum.

:goodtimes:

Banditman

Beaut of a post, Singe. Hey Lance, there's your court case counter-argument re: copying and original design. Singe'll take a nice guitar in lieu of cash payment for his expertise. ?

StefStoep

How about this.....neither copies or counterfeits.

Tokai have built various Gibson and Fender replica models over the years .......Replicas! (Yes i know that is just a fancier word for copies)

schizo

First time i've heard of Tokai guits.....reminds me a lot of Rob Chapman guitars, http://www.chapmanguitars.co.uk/guitars/ml-3-rc/

pretty cool specs, chambered body, mahogany etc etc....

Ironstine

Nah dude I am chilled..... I'm all about the love, in fact if you want have a circle jerk over Tokai i'll even donate the Marie biscuits... well Pick & Pay copies anyway..

singemonkey

Banditman wrote: Beaut of a post, Singe. Hey Lance, there's your court case counter-argument re: copying and original design. Singe'll take a nice guitar in lieu of cash payment for his expertise. ?

If he wins based on something I said, he can give me a fat discount on one of these ?

Otherwise I'll just have to get it with one of these ☹

NorioDS

Ironstine wrote: Nah dude I am chilled..... I'm all about the love, in fact if you want have a circle jerk over Tokai i'll even donate the Marie biscuits... well Pick & Pay copies anyway..

Rule #1 of GFSA: Be nice. You're sucking at this rule. So badly.

Banned for 1 month to calm down.

Banditman

studmissile wrote: At one stage I thought Gibson had left South Africa?

They either completely did, or for all intent and purposes did. Then they thought about all those poor South African musos and teenagers who wouldn't be able to get an official Gibson and came back again. :?

serven

Just a thought (don't remember reading it here)...

I get/understand the argument (all of it from all sides), but it personally just feels funny to me to get worked up over someone making an instrument the same as someone else. (Note the feel word there: I don't know or really care if it is right/wrong to copy it). I come from a family and upbringing of classical instruments like violins, pianos, cellos and that sort of thing. I never thought/understood/knew about the "guitar design" complications of electric guitars before I didn't start really playing one two years ago. If two years ago you would've told me about the Gibson v Tokai argument I would've looked at you funny and said "how on earth do a person get worked up because one company makes an instrument the same way that another company does". Now? I don't know, I think mainly I don't care and will probably support whatever company can give me the most (quality, tone, value, extras whatever) for my money. I don't really have a moral problem with one company copying another company's results - it just feels like trends.

All DAWs work more or less the same and start adding features that people like about the other DAWs (it seems to me). It's not like they are pirating the software, they are adding features that people like in software. This is vaguely reminiscent of the iPhone / Galaxy screaming. I believe the guy who gets there first (or does the first design) naturally gets an advantage with being able to sell that type of product first, create customer loyalty and so on. If someone else comes along and manages to create the same product with their own methods/tools/policies/staff/lower markups/etc. for cheaper, they should naturally get that advantage to counter the other. In the ever fast-changing industry that I am in as a career (computers and tech) this is fairly common and mostly the only people really filing lawsuits or making a lot of noise about it are the really massive companies with money to burn on lawyers to try and get ahead by pushing the competition down.

That being said, this is just my own opinion. I'd probably buy a Tokai before a Gibson simply because I'd get more for the money that I work hard for and what I have heard/felt/read is good. Then again I don't really buy what I believe is overpriced branded clothing. Paying more for brand for the sake of "name" seems somewhat stupid to me if you're not a multi-millionaire - it must be justified by a real benefit in the actual product, not just a name/logo. If a KIA is more reliable/comfortable/faster/better than a Rolls Royce I'd like to believe that I'd have the responsibility, intelligence and common-sense and self-control to buy the KIA instead - and I am fairly sure if KIA could make a car like a Rolls Royce they'd probably do it ?

JW

NO!!!!! I feel it says proudly TOKAI on the headstock!! I never get confused between the 2 brands either!!They are each their own respective brand.