schizo
Hey Guys, just wondered what your views are regarding alternate/directional picking vs economy picking.
And this might be interesting as well regarding picking technique:
I must admit that the way it is explained in "cracking the code" it actually works....and hearing what the articulation benefits are from learning economy/directional picking I spent a lot of time trying to learn the technique.
I suppose I could put more time into economy picking but I eventually reverted back to alternate picking with occasional economy picking (especially acceding/descending in 3rds)
I find alternate picking easier to do but more difficult to control articulation of notes while economy picking offers a lot more control and feels more relaxed when playing/just speed is a problem for me.
What is your take on picking techniques???
Lord-Vetinari
The way I see it, is you need to employ whatever it tales to get where you are going. Mastering a technique by nature brings inspiration to use it, which furthers the musician. So it is not about a choice, but exactly what you are doing, taking what you need when you need it. If it stops being fun there is no point so being purist about technique will not suit all of our creative processes.
schizo
True that, but when I learned picking technique I didn't even know there was different ones.
Now seeing certain techniques deliver more consistent playing regarding the sound you get from your pick attack (it get pretty hard if I want to place accents on different notes other than the first or last using alternate picking, but economy picking is way easier to place accents where you want), especially the case when you look at economy picking.
It makes sense to use whatever you have learned to make it as easy for the guitarist to reach the goal of the song, with the least effort and being consistent.
What is not ideal is when you need to alter phrases so that it suits your playing rather than play what you hear in your mind. (that is what I tend to do, compromise as a result of lacking playing ability)
What do you use the most? Or do you just play?
Lord-Vetinari
I love to just play, but usually I am a little too stuck up for that :? The guitarists curse I guess. You are right, after having been exposed to everything from banjo to classical and rock techniques sloooowly over the years, an awareness certainly builds of what can be done and one sure as hell wants to get there.
So I get pretty obsessive. I believe tone is in the head, so if I hear it in my inner ear so to speak I will settle for nothing but that. As a result some odd things happen here and there, like totally negating picking and only hammering and pulling and sliding for little bits. Takes a bloody long time tbh, so what is happening is my style is going more minimal by nature but I see this as a temporary phase, I will get on to the crescendo with speed thang again later. But I am pretty obsessed with this subject right now, getting the sound in the inner ear onto the fretboard.
Nobody warned me it could take quite THIS long though... still better than PlayStation ?
schizo
That is exactly what has been the last few years of my playing as well. TONE TONE TONE.......obsessive hunt for the sound I want to hear but not fully get.
Usually I had to dial the treble way back on my amp, and switch to the neck pup to get that fluid sound, or at least not feel as if bees were attacking me in the ears. Then slowly I started to realize what a HUGE impact fretting hand tension (playing relaxed) coupled with the technique as discussed and a major one is pick angle and attack depth. So after much pondering I realized I played way too aggressive.....but massive improvement regarding tone, and strange that the more I focus on relax, the easier it gets playing difficult phrases.
But I never knew what an impact your pick has on tone......
Lord-Vetinari
Yeah that's the ticket. If you cant relax then firstly, good luck playing on pitch, secondly, I pity your poor Strat's frets and bridge they will need some work soon... These are the two big things I have learned. I am fortunate to have had some insanely good instructors, paid through my teeth but hey its guitar. Scotty Johnson spent three months just getting me to relax. The harder you dig in the further your tone goes to hell. You can play aggressively, windmilling away like Pete Townshend no problem, as long as you have yourself totally under control. Which brings me to the second real gem of knowledge I managed to gleam, this one off god himself, Steve Vai: You can get any sound out that is in your head, trick is to slow down to a crawl, get it perfect (Steve has this thing, he has to play it perfectly ten times in a row before he moves up the metronome) then speed it up. He taught us a technique he calls 'musical meditation where you draw the sounds you want into your head, and hold them there until you get the sound. Damn bloody hard to do I can tell you. He has this lovely story about how Edward Van Halen came over to his house, played a riff or two on Steve's guitar with his pedals, his amp everything, and still had the audacity to sound like Eddie van Halen. Conversely he spent time on Eric Johnson's rig during the G3 tours and could not come close to sounding like him. This is proof that tone is in the head. The fingers only do what the mind tells them, they are tools and need to be kept on form. I guess this latter point is the reason for exploring various techniques, getting the pickers strong and agile. And it is a feedback system, the fingers discover a little sound, the brain files it away, then later the brain wants that sound and tells the fingers where to go ?
Anyhow, no virtuoso just plays. If you see how the tap intro for Building The Church was built, it really took over a decade to become what it is. It started off as single notes tapped one at a time over and over till the tone was right. Then more notes added, then sped up to 64ths. He had to spend days rehearsing the stuff he was going to show for the classes, he didn't just go in and do it. Real eye opener. I mean I saw him get cramps and have to shake em out. Just a human like us.
schizo
? funny you should mention my frets......I actually had to level and re-crown them a few weeks ago (actually posted a diy on the forum when i did it) had intonation problems on the g b and high e strings..... >☹ lucky its all gone after the fret work - which was because i have a bit aggressive style of playing.
But i am working really hard on hand independence and keeping my fretting hand relaxed while strumming hand needs to work harder.
Just came back from seeing the cape town phil harmonic and you must have seen the violin player they got from Vennesse.....wow now he can in real time decide what he wants to play, and more importantly what he wants the audience to feel at any moment. Brilliant.
As long as it feels relaxed its good ?
Lord-Vetinari
I just noticed you live within reasonable driving distance for me bro. I am planning a trip out to Bredasdorp to go have a look at a venue I heard about, me and a friend have some plans... both of us had organised trance jols and have been planning a foray into rock n roll for quite some time hehehehehe. Might be fun to organize the odd jam, always great bouncing ideas off somebody with mutual interest. I am waaaay keen for some tone sessions, got all these awesome little games and excercises meant for two people I still want to try.
One of them is 'chord stories' if you have somebody to jam with (I am literally in the middle of nowhere lol) you can give it a go. Basically just sit back to back and take turns, one guy strums a chord, any chord, and the other guy visualises and describes a story according to what he is hearing. It basically builds super awareness of tonal atmosphere. Been messing with it myself but listening to recordings is different because you know what is coming next. Many fun little things.
Those classical string insteumentalists are next level. Just.... wow. How you reach that level and still have time to shower I don't know man. And then you think how Beyonce is making all the bucks.... so sad. Classical solo musicians all deserve a medal for what they do, total soldiers. But then, also, imagine you as guitarist being in am environment where all the things you are learning now as an adult are there for you to learn from day one. Musical knowledge has a way to go over here...
schizo
? sweet man that sounds quite fun, what venue are you going to look at if I might ask (maybe I know it)
I am always keen to jam.....can imagine in Bredasdorp there isn't a whole bunch of people that share interest in instruments. There is literally one drummer I know ( which is pretty good as well ) but he likes online computer games more so its difficult to organize a jam. Been a while since I had a session so might be a bit rusty interacting with different style - but should be ok.
The chord stories is quite an interesting idea for mixing it with say another leisure activity, but I'm pretty much open minded when it comes to music so no prob ?
Maybe inbox me the details and maybe a link to some of the music you have done (interested to hear what you are into)
Lord-Vetinari
Lol yeah I need to get into uploading some stuff to Soundcloud or something. Mostly use android for the web pretty paranoid about hooking the 'studio' machines up to the net so I haven't really gotten into doing that much lately. I think I still have some stuff up on my Berklee Online profile I will go look its been a while.
Rhythm... I like to play nu school metal, melodic rock and stuff that in general you can't get right while being bored. Solo stuff I play a lot more relaxed, floaty and clean most of the time, Kim a like soundscapes on guitar really. Also nobody to jam with out here so I am finding ways to make solo electric guitar amusing ? I will try record you a little video of what I am getting up to now it is pretty exciting, so even though I mostly listen to really heavy music I am finding the most fascinating stuff playing very mellow.
In the end there is nothing I don't play aside from Jazz. I just don't have the balls. Oh yeah I forgot the name of the place now going there with a buddy, but it is a new place, outdoors on a nature reserve. Stage, bar, etc, sounds SICK but we will see. Plus Kim a middle of nowhere but I am certain I can get a big enough shindig going...
