Keira WitherKay wrote
hello all, just a question i been reading up a lot about nylon acoustic flamenco guitars and also classical guitars..... and as we all know solid spruce tops are an asset.... but i have read that the solid spruce top....matures over time to a great sound...and when you buy the guitar it will sound different to ow it will a few years on..... and then after many years will actually deteriate again.... and this i read on a classical site.... but it had no time frames....
I'm surprised to hear about the deterioration. Spruce tops do take time to open up, but unless they are fairly badly neglected they should at worst even off after a few years. That should apply to any good top wood. The one exception maybe flamenco guitars - but that's not the wood's fault.
Keira WitherKay wrote
so how long does a solid spruce top have to develop????? before it sounds it's best...and how many years before it loses it's best tone....
I have no scientific data for this, but there seem to be two forces at work. The first is just time, the second is playing. Mervyn Davis told me you can buy the best guitar in the world, but it won't sound good if you don't play it and put some "miles" on it. This implies that if you bought two identical (or nearly as possible) guitars, kept them both well but played one and didn't play the other that they would sound different after a couple of years.
My Morgan is a 2003 model. I bought it second hand in late 2006. It sounded good when I bought it, but sounds better now. I think PART but not all of the "sounding better" is down to my ears getting more accustomed to it's nuances, but there is definitely a change due to more "milage" and to aging.
Based on what I've read, I'd expect the top to keep on developing for at least another 10 years, though I think the "graph" may flatten out with time.
Keira WitherKay wrote
also i been reading that cedar tops are fast replacing spruce tops since they have instant tone and don't need to mature....
Cedar and spruce are quite different woods. Different colour, different grain, different ratio of strength to thickness, and a different tone. I don't believe it's "instant" but the word is that cedar tops do open up a lot quicker. They also just sound different to spruce.
Here's some notes on woods (top and tone) by British luthier Nick Benjamin
http://www.benjaminguitars.co.uk/woods.htm
Keira WitherKay wrote
these are questions that come to mind ...since i want a custom istrument and the more i read the more i concerned that i will spend a fortune for something that might not be that mellow sounding natural
guitar i have dreamed of.... and maybe it's better to buy a second hand rameriz or other top brand name
cos i'm not wealthy enough to buy twice if i get it wrong.....heheheh
Well a good luthier should be able to provide guidance in this regard. Above I posted a link to the site of Nick Benjamin. I have met Nick and had a longish chat with him. He prefers to meet prospective clients and have them bring their current guitar. He wants to see them play, he wants to chat with them about what they like and don't like about the current guitar.
I do think there must always be an element of uncertainty when buying a custom instrument, but this is why some makers command higher prices than others - they have a better record for delivering what the customer wants.
Also some makers/brands have a signature sound. They will have different philosophies tostrutting, to bridge design, to body shape etc.
In the UK last year I met a guy named Roger Bucknell. Roger makes Fylde guitars
http://www.benjaminguitars.co.uk/woods.htm. He had a stand at a festival we were attending and was kind enough to let me play 4 or 5 of his guitars. The workmanship was of a fantastically high standard. Every detail of the guitars was beautiful. I wasn't sure about the tone of the guitars though. There was something in the sound, a dry, woody quality, that didn't do it for me. I would guess that he is pitching his guitars more at the British/Celtic fingerstyle market than at blues or bluegrass players (in fact his guitars all have a zero fret - so it's unlikely that the bluegrass guys are going to go for them).
And the difference in tone between different wood combinations was quite obvious. The one I liked best was a smaller bodied cedar and sapele instrument. The talking point in Roger's catalog would be his "single malt" models which are made from pine and oak reclaimed from whisky distilleries. The difference in tone between one of these and a more conventional wood combination was very apparent.
So there's a lot of factors at play. You should probably try to get references first, or at least play some of the luthier's instruments so that you can assess his workmanship and basic concepts of how a guitar should sound, play and be constructed. And it may help to follow Nick Benjamin's advice and consider your current axe and then ask yourself what you want more of or less of.
You should also think about the tone woods, the back and sides. They offer subtle shading to the main "colour" of the top. All else being equal, a guitar with rosewood back and sides will sound different to one with mahogany, or maple, or walnut. Not "better" or "worse" but different. If you browse through Nick Benjamin's site you will find notes on his standard range and the wood combinations that he offers and which styles each combination suits.
