Ray
make better musical instruments than Japanese or Koreans or MeXicans or South Africans?
Stoffeltoo
Uuuh- Tokai? I rest my case ? :yup:
VellaJ
I think the argument for USA-vs-everyone-else is perceived quality and value. Most manufacturers seem to have their roots in USA (apart, of course, from brands like Tokai and Ibanez) and therefore people think "well, they've been doing it there longer, so it must be better." This is what drives people to pay the prices that they do for new ones, and staves off depreciation in second-hand USA models.
This being said, the price you pay for USA guitars vs what you could pay for their "less desired" counterparts (I'm looking at you, Fender) is absolutely ridiculous. A Mexican Stratocaster would more than meet my personal needs, and I think I'd have a hard time finding any meaningful differences between Mexican and USA models.
There are of course brands like PRS where you should be able to tell the difference. While their SE range is known for being excellent, I don't think they'd stack up against the USA standards. I'm guessing in this case, because I've never been graced with the opportunity to play a USA PRS.
In my experience I've always been very pleased with the Japanese and Mexican guitar quality. I haven't had enough experience with the Korean guitars, and I'm afraid I've had no experience whatsoever with SA guitars. I've just never had enough money to fulfill all of my GAS ?
ZarK
The short answer is: Definitely not...
Keira-WitherKay
i think the answer is definitely not a straight forward one....
and also it depends how you judge "better"....
in my opinion .... which may differ from others ... is i think you need to break gear down into categories
1. workmanship /playability .... there i see many guitars coming from east that can deliver 100% JUST LAST WEEK I PLAYED A KOREAN Sammick but one designed by valley arts custom shop ...and it was super high quality build and played like a dream...
and so i think a good guitar is measured in how it appeals to you and your playing style
2.iconic status this is all branding...cos historically it was the USA martins / gibson /fenders that made the 1st ever "iconic" designs that have stood the test of time.....so if thats a reason why you want to buy a guitar , to be part of that legacy (however diluted it may be in 21st century) but thats why many people buy watches /cars/jewellery AND guitars cos of the status related to it .....so yes your custom shop usa fender strat will get the oohs and aahs just because of what it is ... just human nature
3. resale value...we mostly buy guitars we eventually sell off ....so in that respect it's easier to sell a USA top end guitar than most others... i owned a very expensive (for me) Japanese made guitar i virtually had to sell at 50% of it's value and battled for months to even get offers ...yet every USA guitar i have owned has sold for good prices and even if i didn''t make a profit i got what i paid for for it ... so resale is better on USA instruments
4. value for money there i think many eastern made guitars offer incredible value for money ...meaning you can get an amazing instrument and same build quality and playability for so much less than the USA equivalent ...BUT at the expense of the iconic status ....
5. vintage value the iconic usa instruments will usually have ever increasing vintage value.....BUT i see quite often some of the Japanese guitars are now also gaining in collect ability
AS FOR LOCAL SA BUILDS THERE ARE SOME INCREDIBLE LOCAL LUTHIERS who build here in SA ....Murray Kuun's guitars i know very well as i have played most that he makes ...check out his you tube site( i can be seen demoing quite a few of his instruments) ..and they world class he sells them in USA as a boutique builder for top boutique prices one jazz guitar recently was advertised and sold in USA(not sure if it was discounted) by a usa dealer for $7500 (approx R75000)SO THATS SAYING a lot for how the world perceives some of our local luthiers.... Hans v/den berg just got a huge write up in USA press for his work.... and mark maingard is hugely respected and makes guitars for the stars.......and many many more Cassami guitars too
BUT despite the local talent ... as a working musician i would love to play and own one of murray kuuns guitars but i couldn't afford it ...even at cost price ...since these are all one off boutique guitars and not mass produced hence seldom available for good prices.... so most local guitars find themselves in the international market or sold to only people who can afford ds boutique prices locally ,which means the low end models start at 20 - 30 K and then move upwards very quickly for the better models but admittedly they boutique hand built instruments ....so they can't sell for less ...a very vicious circle
so there ...before you make a choice decide what makes a guitar better ...build quality /iconic status/pedigree/value for money /professional level tone ...then decide cos many of us all seek different criteria in a guitar ....
ezietsman
3. resale value...we mostly buy guitars we eventually sell off ....so in that respect it's easier to sell a USA top end guitar than most others... i owned a very expensive (for me) Japanese made guitar i virtually had to sell at 50% of it's value and battled for months to even get offers ...yet every USA guitar i have owned has sold for good prices and even if i didn''t make a profit i got what i paid for for it ... so resale is better on USA instruments
- See more at:
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/off-topic-lounge/do-americans/msg259359/?topicseen#msg259359
Most players I personally know, never sell guitars. I've only sold one guitar in 14 years and I regretted that. I see how guitars come and go on the forum but I'm not sure this a representative sample of players, in fact, this forum and maybe some others (TGP?) causes the GAS that makes people mad. Looking on public classifieds, it seems most guitars that are being sold is from beginners who tried to play then gave up. I'm not sure your point no 3 is as important as some others you make.
In the case of your Japanese guitar, I think you were unlucky, but the point you make about resale value may be true in South Africa for that particular brand. Many many players only know a few brands (like 4 or 5) and none of the more esoteric ones.
My argument is that resale value of an instrument is *probably* of lessor concern to the majority of players, because most don't sell their guitars often. That said, I don't have any data to back this up either and my theory remains to be tested somehow.
ZarK
Bokvet wrote:
Do Americans make better musical instruments than Japanese or Koreans or MeXicans or South Africans?
Its never a good idea to generalize.
If I am asked to generalize (as per the title), I have to say no, Americans do not make better musical instruments. Based on my experience, I'd award the title to Japan (if I had to generalize). Especially if you consider all the other branches of "musical instruments" as per the title...
Certainly doesn't mean I'm going to replace my US guitars with MIJ examples just because they're MIJ. I love my US and MIJ guitars equally.
Charlie4
@Keira: Japanese guitars, I've found hold up a tad better on Ebay, especially Tokai's, Japan Fenders etc. It's perhaps a tad more effort but if it increases your profit why not give it a go next time?
I have a US- and Japanese-made guitar I'm both proud of and honestly, the one does not hold back to the other. If I had the resources I would prefer to support the local guys - we really have some amazing talent in this country, no doubt.
I think regarding innovation the Yanks set the benchmark, the Japanese study it, equal it and maybe even improve on a few things. The US market do like Japanese guitars, but it might be due to their scarcity caused by red tape.
Wizard
May be valuable to separate resale between guitars bought new and those bought secondhand. The country of origin affects these differently. A good quality secondhand Cort can often be resold for what you paid for it.
Chabenda
Fifty or sixty years ago the Americans did build the best instruments. I don't think that they have necessarily lost the ability, just that other countries have upped their game. An old early seventies Japanese or Italian electric guitar was generally a P.O.S. to play. Crappy pickups, zero frets, one inch action, rocker switches. That situation has changed and there is certainly more parity now. It has been necessary to up your game - something that, often, the Americans haven't been able to do competitively.
Big-G
AS Chabenda states above, I think there was a time where American and Western European (particularly the UK) built instruments were significantly better quality than the Japanese and Korean built quality. I think that even now that the quality of Japanese/Korean/Indonesian/Taiwanese and to a certain extent Chinese built instruments is excellent, and has significantly improved, to the point where they are of competitive quality, the stigma of these previously poor quality instruments has stuck, and the perceived view that US built was better is so ingrained that people still value them more, and as a result, they hold their value better, despite not necessarily being better quality. On the negative side, consistency has been an issue with eastern brands, so this doesn't help.
Having said that, it is important to note that we obviously cannot compare like for like instruments (except perhaps in the case of Tokai) as Gibson would never allow Epiphone to exceed the quality of their American cousins, and like wise Fender wouldn't. One example is in the early 90's there was a apparently a range of Squier strats that many considered better than the US standards, and very quickly Fender allegedly put a stop on this range, as they were cutting into the US sales. I cannot remember the specific range, so I cannot confirm this. All I know is my friend owned one of them.
My Personal view is that most US built production models (excluding perhaps the custom shop models - maybe!) are over priced, and not actually worth the prices they go for, with the exception of PRS. The standard of 'furniture grade' finishing on PRS' line is stunning, and makes the difference to me compared to the 'other two' brands.
With regards to Chinese brands, it is said that there is no such thing as a reject in China, and if something is not quite right, it is just repackaged and sent back out to see if it can pass inspection a second time, or is rebranded and sold more cheaply. I don't know how true this is, but I have seen how Chinese manufacturing can be to a very high standard, especially when managed by a 'western' company where they have high standards on quality control.
So all in all, that's a long winded way in saying that no US models are not necessarily better quality than the rest of the world, but the perception that they are is still alive and strong, and affects their pricing accordingly (along with such western values as minimum wage and other workers rights etc).
Regards
G!
AlanRatcliffe
People make good and bad instruments. Nationality has nowt to do with it. Mostly with modern instruments, you get what you pay for - although there are those where you pay a premium for their history. I'm old enough to have seen the US degenerate into producing rubbish and claw it's way back again, "Made in Japan/Korea/Singapore/Taiwan" go from being a bad thing to a good. And make no mistake, China's going the same way...
Even during the Golden era of US guitars, there were cheap brands that were pooting forth quirky, badly designed, crappily made plywood planks with strings tied on (many of which have gone on to be collectible and/or valuable themselves, due to nostalgia and their place in history). On the whole, cheap instruments today are better made than cheap instruments in the 50's and 60's. In most cases, the standard guitars made today are better made than the expensive vintage guitars - they are certainly more consistent.
The only thing that is worse today than in days of yore is the wood quality. Good wood was standard in the '50s, everything else was firewood.
chris77
Some will, some won't. And often the makers you would think should, will be the ones who don't.
Funnily enough my two most droolworthy builders at the moment are both German. (Nik Huber and Framus.)
