Epiphone Les Paul Studio vs Epiphone Les Paul Ultra iii

Kaige-Evans

Hi all,

I am shopping for an Epiphone LP and Marshal Music seems to be the only supplier here in SA for Epi's & Gib's

Between these two Epi's which one do you think might be the better choice for Blues/Rock.

I am a bit scared of the Ultra III since I have seen many online posts where people complain about very bad thread buzz on this specific model. I know this can be fixed but as many people have tried even their luthiers told them to rather send it back for replacement.

The studio version seems very plain but more trustworthy maybe, I don't know.

I like the idea of the satin finish on a slim taper D neck profile.

Any advise will be appreciated.

Regards

(old forum) Poll Results: Which one do you prefer?

Epiphone Les Paul Studio: 2
Epiphone Les Paul Ultra iii: 0

AlanRatcliffe

Well, if you're willing to spend for a fancier guitar like the Ultra III, why not just get a top Les Paul-alike such as a Tokai or even one of the better PRS SEs? Or even stretch a little and pick up a secondhand Gibbo or one of the US PRSi.

If you want to get an Epi, rather look at the Standard and maybe upgrade the pickups or something like the Plustop Pro. The studios are stripped-down and don't have the maple cap.

AlanRatcliffe

Oh and factor in the price of a pro setup with any new guitar.

And yeah - Marshalls are the only Gibson/Epi authorised shops.

AlanRatcliffe

I see Gear Junkie has a Gibson Studio for R10K and a Classic for R15K ATM...
http://www.thegearjunkie.co.za/store/c6/Guitars.html

singemonkey

A lot depends on how much you're willing to pay. You can get much better bang-for-buck buying 2nd hand, as Alan implies. If you hold out, you might pick up a made-in-Japan Tokai for R6k - R8k which will smoke any Epiphone and is specc'd pretty much the same as a Gibson LP Traditional.

The PRS SE also, while not looking as much like Gibsons, are vastly superior to Epiphones at affordable prices - especially 2nd hand.

Buying new means you pay about 40% more than you would buying 2nd hand. And for what? Guitars don't wear out.

Kaige-Evans

Thank you for the advise Singermonkey, I understand that second hand is maybe a better choice, but call me paranoid or weird, I just somehow don't feel comfortable buying second-hand, or at least not yet. I want to be able to take it in if anything goes wrong or funny without any trouble or worries if possible. I have heard of Tokai's and seen the PRS ones but I prefer to look for either Epiphone/Gibson LP.

Thank you so much for your advise so far Alan,

I just went and test drove the following three guitars.

New Epiphone Les Paul Studio (Worn Cherry) R5600

I must say I am very impressed with the feel of this one. That satin almost had me sold & I had to give it back very quickly so I could try out the other two. Not a single ounce of fret buzz, a beautiful tone & I kind of like the plain matt look of it. http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Les-Paul/Les-Paul-Studio.aspx

~~New Epiphone Les Paul Studio (Goth) R5600~~

Horrible, the fingerboard looks like a very badly looked after baseball bat, action very very low and the tones were very muddy, maybe it was just this one but a big no no from my side. Moving on. http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Les-Paul/Goth-Les-Paul-Studio.aspx

New Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute (Satin Goldtop) R11200

The moment I touched it I could feel it is a Gibson. Very basic Gibson, beautiful tone, personally not crazy about the neck profile or the colour unless I lie to myself a little bit, but it almost felt like I was holding Excalibur! http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-USA/Les-Paul-60s-Tribute.aspx

Verdict.

Look, don't get me wrong, I can feel & understand the craftsmanship on the Gibson but I don't know enough about this one to make a final decision. Although brand new, it feels like I will be buying an old guitar. So I guess they got the 60's part spot on.

The Epiphone Studio worn cherry one impressed me a lot on sound. feel & look plus it actually feels & plays like a nice new guitar.

Once again, please feel free to give me any advise. I am not a guitar guru but I try as hard as possible to do as much homework as possible.

Thank you in Advance

Banditman

Hi Kaige,

Buying used isn't necessarily "better", but what the guys mean is that you can often pick up a very decent guitar for a lot less than the price of a new one. So don't dismiss a 2nd hand instrument for the sake of having a new one. I snapped up an Epiphone Sheraton (with a few issues but decent guitar) for less than R3800 with the case and it's a gem. Once Grant Fouche's finished with stage 2 of modding it'll be even better and STILL have cost me less than the R10500.00 new sticker price with no upgrading of hardware. My local guitar shop has a barely played Tokai Vintage LP in cherry burst for R8K with the hard case and I'd have that over an Epiphone any day of the week. Many shops will have used instruments on sale as well, so you'll have some comeback. As Alan said: even if you buy brand new, factor in a pro setup. Trust him (and me) - this makes a world of difference.

I can't say I'm impressed by the satin finish Gibson Studios (I'm a Gibson fan and have played a Les Paul Classic as my go-to guitar since '06). They're built down to a price to sit just above the Epiphone range. Epiphones aren't Gibsons any more than Tokais are, even if they're owned by the parent company.

The Studio range guitars were originally brought out by Gibson for Studio use in that they had the tone without the trim, so they're the entry level. It's the same with Epiphone. Rather find a decent Epi Custom or Ultra. In the Gibson Studio price bracket you have some excellent guitars. The Tokai Vintage series are every bit as good (and possibly more consistent) than the Gibsons, and at that price you still get a decent finish rather than the stained pawpaw wood vibe of the worn studios. The Tokai Traditionals are Made in China like most modern Epiphones and play just as well. You should also be able to look at an ESP LTD 1000 for that kind of money. Look for the version with the Seymour Duncan '59 & JB pickups. The PRS SE range are also good.

At the end of the day you have to buy what makes you happy, but take your time and try a few guitars that weren't on your original shopping list. You may well be pleasantly surprised at what's out there.

singemonkey

Just a reminder that that's a very expensive paranoia. Epiphone LPs are thick on the ground - some with improvements that others have paid for and with setups done.

If you're going to buy new and you're set on Gibson or Epiphone, go with the Epiphone, forget the '60s tribute Studio. As Gibson's lowest priced Les Pauls, they've continually brought the specs down on Studios since they first come out. Now they're not built to the standards you'd expect of a guitar of that price. It'll leave you yearning for a proper Les Paul but you'll get a lot less for it than you paid.

So go for the Epiphone if it checks out. But I wouldn't. I'd either (a) buy a 2nd hand MIJ Tokai for a little bit more than the Epi (which'll have all the Gibson stuff except the name), or (b) save up another 5 grand above the '60s tribute and buy a 2nd hand LP, preferably a '90s Standard, or a '70s LP Custom.

Edit: I should mention that my buddy bought a slightly battered, but thoroughly awesome '73 Les Paul Custom for R16K a couple years back - so it can be done. A '90s Standard will almost never go for more than R15k and they're some of Gibson's best LP Standards.

Kaige-Evans

Wow, thank you for all the advise Banditman.

I appreciate that you took the time to read & reply to my query. To be very honest regarding the matt & satin finish on the Gibson, I love it, I am not a glossy kind of fan.

I am not a pro player at all, this will be in fact my very 1st "self bought" guitar which will 100% be used for studio recording. I don't do gigs & I am mainly a vocalist who plays a little bit of guitar, so going over the top would be a waste. I am merely looking for a nice quality guitar that won't lose too much value the moment I swipe my card.

If I could ask some more advise on the Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute if we could put the matt finish aside. Looking at the quality, the burstbuckers and wood quality, do you reckon that it is a good deal?

I will definitely shop around a lot more but am very intrigued by the LP 60's Tribute.

EDIT: I must also mention that I am not looking to modify the axe in any way very soon. I currently have a Kramer Neptune which I want to refurbish and play around with as soon as I have a new Les Paul replacement.

ezietsman

Kaige Evans wrote: I am not a pro player at all, this will be in fact my very 1st "self bought" guitar which will 100% be used for studio recording. I don't do gigs & I am mainly a vocalist who plays a little bit of guitar, so going over the top would be a waste. I am merely looking for a nice quality guitar that won't lose too much value the moment I swipe my card.

This is no excuse not to have a good guitar.

Kaige Evans wrote: If I could ask some more advise on the Gibson Les Paul 60's Tribute if we could put the matt finish aside. Looking at the quality, the burstbuckers and wood quality, do you reckon that it is a good deal?

Not really. They are OK as guitars go. You will lose a lot of money on it if you buy it brand new, as Singemonkey pointed out. I'd listen to him and banditman and go for a second hand instrument. You usually get something that is well looked-after, that has had a setup and so on. The new Gibson LP Studios are made from wood that is hardly any better than matchstick wood. Most definitely go for a Tokai Vintage (models LS92 to LS115), 2nd hand Gibson LP standard or one of those ESP Eclipse guitars, if you want a Les Paul style guitar.

Kaige-Evans

ez wrote:
This is no excuse not to have a good guitar.

Ok ok lol, so buying "new" is basicly a bad idea... even with a limited lifetime warranty? So where would I shop for a mint condition Les Paul? How do I know whether it is a good deal and what do I do if something that is out of my control goes wrong?

ezietsman

Kaige Evans wrote:
ez wrote:
This is no excuse not to have a good guitar.
Ok ok lol, so buying "new" is basicly a bad idea... even with a limited lifetime warranty? So where would I shop for a mint condition Les Paul? How do I know whether it is a good deal and what do I do if something that is out of my control goes wrong?

I guess the same thing the rest of us do. Look at enough of them to know when they are in good knick or not. Not much to go wrong on electric guitars, plus on the second-hand instruments most factory niggles would have been sorted out by the previous owner if not, a setup will fix it. They're not like laptops or phones. You don't need a warranty for a guitar. Don't drop them or bang the headstock against stuff (Les Paul headstocks break REALLY easily). Check for things like cracks near the headstock, how worn the frets are (frets wear down), assume the strings are old (you replace them every month yes?), make sure all the knobs work without crackle, check all the pickups make sound. Turn the tuners and see if they're smooth. There's a 101 things one can look at. DO NOT assume a brand new Gibson doesn't have problems. They were just on a ship for a number of weeks and into South Africa and the climate is different so their setups are probably shot anyway. The shop should fix them but after a change like that they need a while to settle so they may need another tweak anyway.

IceCreamMan

Kaige Evans wrote:
ez wrote:
This is no excuse not to have a good guitar.
Ok ok lol, so buying "new" is basicly a bad idea... even with a limited lifetime warranty? So where would I shop for a mint condition Les Paul? How do I know whether it is a good deal and what do I do if something that is out of my control goes wrong?

its unlikely something horrible will go wrong, guitars are robust devices....if you buy cleverly the likelihood of something failing is slim. never have I had to make a guarantee claim on a guitar...ever......

worst that could happen is that a pub or switch fails , in either case the cost of replacing it would be vastly less than the initial purchase price anyway.

but of course check stuff when buying second hand , like anything really...

ppl have mentioned Tokai's in this thread previously, I am a vocal supporter of the brand...u get top class instruments at great prices and even more so when buying them second hand......

and if you wanted anything specifically checked, there is a wealth of knowledge on the forum too who are too happy to share this knowledge.

Kaige-Evans

Thank you all for great advise, I am trying to keep an open mind here so I am going to look into some Tokai's and other LP shape guitars. ?

ZarK

Some very good advise given already...

+100 for a MIJ Tokai or PRS SE. The Tokai will look and sound like a Les Paul, the SE will have its own voice. Both are highly recommended. I'd take a second-hand example of either without any hesitation over a brand new Epi LP...

Kaige-Evans

Okay

So browsed a bit, did some homework on Tokai and I admit, they do seem to be a very good quality built guitar. I in particular like the Tokai LC 98 (wine red) & have been scouting to try and find some prices but these seem scarce. I guess I will have to search some more.

Thank you all so far!

Just something I saw while browsing for different brands :? thoughts? http://musicworx.co.za/product/epiphone-les-paul-gibson/

ZarK

Kaige Evans wrote: So browsed a bit, did some homework on Tokai and I admit, they do seem to be a very good quality built guitar. I in particular like the Tokai LC 98 (wine red) & have been scouting to try and find some prices but these seem scarce.

A great place to start would be to contact Lance (Tokai SA here on GF): lance@tokaiguitars.co.za

AlanRatcliffe

Kaige Evans wrote: I in particular like the Tokai LC 98 (wine red) & have been scouting to try and find some prices but these seem scarce.

Click this link to PM Lance Weiner. The local Tokai distributor. He'll tell you where you can find an LC98 or arrange to hook you up through one of his dealer stores.

Secondhand, they don't pop up that often. That's because a) they're not as common as Epis and b) most folk who have them keep them.

Kaige-Evans

Thank you Lance/Alan

Message sent & now waiting for feedback.