Cheap guitar from a make or the expensive?

ajdebeer

Good day

I have a question for all in your own opinion what do you think is the best guitar between the originals like Gibson , Fender usa , Esp or LTD , epiphone ect

I dont want to say bang for the buck but dont just vote original because of a R25000 guitar instead of R5000 .

(old forum) Poll Results: What guitar

Orginal (Gibson , Esp , ect): 6
Asia ( Epiphone , LTD , ect): 7

Big-G

Gosh. I think I'm gonna have to think about this one? On the one hand, there is definitely (for the best part) a marked improvement from the cheaper models to the higher priced models, but I could not say that the improvement is worth sometimes over three times the cost?! Take ESP for example, their Eclipse is a fantastic guitar, and I would happily own one, but for significantly less cash, the LTD EC-1000 is of a high enough quality to more than fulfill my needs, and fulfill them well! in fact, my old EC-500 was a real pleasure, and I regret parting with it. For the money, it was a well finished and setup guitar! PRS is another example. Their USA range are phenomenal, and each one is a work of art, but getting down to the nitty gritty, their SE range are by far more than good enough to do the same job, and still finished to a very high standard. Perhaps the 'furniture grade' finish isn't there as is seen in the USA models, but you are not paying the same amount for the instrument, so you wouldn't expect to see that level of craftsmanship.

I'm not going to get into Fender and Gibson, as my views on them are best left unsaid. It upsets far too many purists. ?

So I will have a think about this before I vote. ?

Regards
G!

AlanRatcliffe

Whatever works for you. I've walked into a store intending to buy one and walked out with the other many times.

If you know what to look for and can judge the guitar by feel and acoustic tone, you can pick up some amazing "cheap" models. Some are perfect as they are, others can easily be turned from decent to great with a few judicious part swaps. Everything aside from neck and body is changeable if you find "The One".

And if the rumours going around on the new Gibson pricing and specs are to be believed, I don't think new Gibsons are going to be an option for most next year...

singemonkey

Haha. ESP vs. Asian? Has ESP moved out of Japan without telling us?

But to answer the substance of your question, it completely depends. As with ESP, not all Asian brands are 'cheapies' by any stretch of the imagination. Anyone who assumes that American guitars are better than Asian guitars has a lot to learn about guitars. The only connection is that cheapo budget guitars can no longer be cost-effectively made in the USA. It doesn't mean that Asian companies don't make top-end guitars.

So is the question really whether you should always go for high-end guitars or go for budget guitars? Again, it depends. Some budget guitars are rubbish. Others just require some cheapish upgrades to turn into pro-quality instruments. Likewise some high-prestige companies ride on their reputations and their guitars sometimes need a lot of work to get playable.

warrenpridgeon

Big G wrote: Gosh. I think I'm gonna have to think about this one? On the one hand, there is definitely (for the best part) a marked improvement from the cheaper models to the higher priced models, but I could not say that the improvement is worth sometimes over three times the cost?! Take ESP for example, their Eclipse is a fantastic guitar, and I would happily own one, but for significantly less cash, the LTD EC-1000 is of a high enough quality to more than fulfill my needs, and fulfill them well! in fact, my old EC-500 was a real pleasure, and I regret parting with it. For the money, it was a well finished and setup guitar! PRS is another example. Their USA range are phenomenal, and each one is a work of art, but getting down to the nitty gritty, their SE range are by far more than good enough to do the same job, and still finished to a very high standard. Perhaps the 'furniture grade' finish isn't there as is seen in the USA models, but you are not paying the same amount for the instrument, so you wouldn't expect to see that level of craftsmanship.

I'm not going to get into Fender and Gibson, as my views on them are best left unsaid. It upsets far too many purists. ?

So I will have a think about this before I vote. ?

Regards
G!

I voted for what I know...

I've only ever owned the Asian version of Fender, Gibson and PRS.

I've played an American PRS, Gibson SG and a Deluxe Fender Tele.
Yes, they played a little nicer than the guitars I had played up until then,
but my SE feels pretty close to those in terms of playability.

The cheapest american PRS Custom 24 on sweetwater is like $2999... so like R40 000 in SA. This is without factoring in discounts etc etc.
Second hand probably wouldn't be much cheaper (going by the prices I've seen people advertising USA PRS guitars for lately).
For me, personally, I can't see how much "better" a R30 000 - R40 000 guitar will be compared to my R6000 SE of the same "type".

This was not meant as an exhaustive search to cover all the bases, but just a quick search.

I started with a Squire bullet strat... And it wasn't bad... But it could have done with some upgrades to the hardware.
It started eating strings because the saddles developed sharp edges after a short time of using the guitar.
I never went as far as getting a proper setup on it before moving on to the Epiphone and I'm sure it would have helped the
playability.

The Epiphone Les Paul I have didn't really need much, but the pickups were a bit muddy.
The hardware was "better" than the squire. More solid tuners.
I managed to set it up with such a low action that if I was playing D-shaped barre chords I had to be very careful not to accidentally
fret notes with my middle finger while muting the other strings. No fret buzz.

The PRS SE I have feels like it "will do" without any upgrades. Maybe I could put some slightly better pickups in one day.
I love this guitar.

Quite honestly, with modern manufacturing techniques, the Asian versions of the mainstream guitar brands are pretty flipping decent. And you could have 3 - 5 Asian PRS guitars to gig with for the price of one Ameri-tooscaredtotakeitoutthehouse-can PRS with the same pickups in.

Personally, once you start getting well above R10000 I would consider getting a luthier to build me a custom guitar according to my specs.

Since I am a human being, my tastes and viewpoints may change over time and I might find myself refusing to play anything but the "originals"...hehe.

V8

warrenpridgeon wrote: Personally, once you start getting well above R10000 I would consider getting a luthier to build me a custom guitar according to my specs.

Since I am a human being, my tastes and viewpoints may change over time and I might find myself refusing to play anything by the "originals"...hehe.

+1. After seeing what Brian Fanner, Manny, Wizard, Lapdawg, Neon Gecko & others can achieve - I'm not able to justify a chunk of $ for a branded guitar. The only reason (for me) to go branded would be re-sale value or (often in the case of 2nd hand Corts), where selling price is < value of parts.

Buuuttttt, I AM cheep S.O.B at the best of times...I've been messing around with a few project guitars and the one I'm really digging at the moment is a R800 tele-partscaster I rescued a few months ago. Oregon pine body from old roof timbers, upgraded to toneriders & variety of non-name brand parts, it just does something for me.

Imho, the rest is - as they say in the classics...mainly visual ?

ezietsman

V8 wrote: The only reason (for me) to go branded would be re-sale value or (often in the case of 2nd hand Corts), where selling price is < value of parts.

I think this a thing amongst amateur guitar players. We care too much about brands and 'resell value', neither of which says anything about how good the instrument/amp/effects pedal would sound and how reliable they would be. I've been much happier with my stuff once I realised that a 'better' i.e. more expensive instrument isn't going to make me sound or play any better, and I'm not planning on selling anything either, because they're mine, they have my hand-goop on them and they have the dings I put on them. I think the classical musos do it the right way. Most I've spoken to doesn't know where/when or by whom their instruments were made, and they chose them solely based on sound and what they could afford. And hey, look they are almost invariably MUCH better than most of us. go figure.

warrenpridgeon

ez wrote:
V8 wrote: The only reason (for me) to go branded would be re-sale value or (often in the case of 2nd hand Corts), where selling price is < value of parts.

I think this a thing amongst amateur guitar players. We care too much about brands and 'resell value',

I tried not to be swayed by "brand" when I bought my last guitar... I have also never taken resell value into accounting when guitar shopping. This last time I picked some features I wanted and did a search for instruments that matched my criteria. I found some PRS guitars, Ibanez etc. Then I looked for reviews on the different guitars and compared them with what I had previously. I then played a couple of these guitars that were the most promising. Then I was scanning the classifieds for the instruments. One of the possible guitars popped up in the colour I wanted, for a price that was in my ballpark so I bought it.

P.s. I was pretty anti PRS before researching and playing one because of the extremist brand loyalty some people display (super fanboy types that say everything else is terrible)... ? lol...I don't like "trends" and "fashion" etc. I'm weird that way. lol.

ez wrote: neither of which says anything about how good the instrument/amp/effects pedal would sound and how reliable they would be. I've been much happier with my stuff once I realised that a 'better' i.e. more expensive instrument isn't going to make me sound or play any better, and I'm not planning on selling anything either, because they're mine, they have my hand-goop on them and they have the dings I put on them. I think the classical musos do it the right way. Most I've spoken to doesn't know where/when or by whom their instruments were made, and they chose them solely based on sound and what they could afford. And hey, look they are almost invariably MUCH better than most of us. go figure.

I differ with you on the "better instrument won't make me better" point. I've found that by getting a better instrument it has
1. Highlighted the areas I need to improve on. It's like the tone was clearer...
the pickups weren't hiding my mistakes behind "mid mush" and therefore I could hear when I was playing sloppy easier.
2. Inspired me to play more.
3. If an instrument stays in tune and the notes are more "accurate" and it has a better tone you will sound better for sure. Obviously if you already have a half decent instrument the level of "better" will not be as noticeable.

singemonkey

I reread the title and I think I understand the question better now. Should you buy a brand's premium guitars, or their budget stuff? Right?

Some of the budget stuff is better in some companies than others. And here we're mainly talking about the American brands that differentiate between premium and branded with different brandnames (e.g., Fender vs. Squier). In Japan they tend to have differently coded models at different levels (A Pacifica 904 has all kinds of fancy stuff that a Pacifica 112 does not).

It varies from brand to brand. But most keep the best stuff up at the top. So Squier are generally kak. While Epiphone are so-so to pretty decent generally. Ltd. seem to be quite consistently good, and the PRS SE seem to punch quite high above their weight. All of them lack a bunch of features that their parent brands have. But something like a PRS SE can be quite easily upgraded to being a very high-quality guitar.

And that's the problem with some of these budget-brands. Squier has always traded on its parent-company's reputation. So you go, "Oh better to buy a Squier than an off-brand copy." But of course, Squiers are generally pants and some of the off-brand copies are brilliant.

And heaven help you if you think the Squier name entitles you to higher resale value ?

(That whole thing, repeated so often here, is a big myth. If you buy a new Gibson for R35,000. In six months time, that spotless guitar can only sell for R18,000. And if you buy a brand new Cort for R9,000, in six months it's worth R4,500. Both lose 50% of their value off the bat - and if you doubt me, as yourself who'll pay R25,000 for a six-month old LP when they can get a beautiful LP from the '90s or from 5 years ago for R15,000? Owning the premium brand just means that the 50% is a bigger hunk of coin).

V8

singemonkey wrote: And heaven help you if you think the Squier name entitles you to higher resale value ?

(That whole thing, repeated so often here, is a big myth. If you buy a new Gibson for R35,000. In six months time, that spotless guitar can only sell for R18,000. And if you buy a brand new Cort for R9,000, in six months it's worth R4,500. Both lose 50% of their value off the bat - and if you doubt me, as yourself who'll pay R25,000 for a six-month old LP when they can get a beautiful LP from the '90s or from 5 years ago for R15,000? Owning the premium brand just means that the 50% is a bigger hunk of coin).

Heh, I do agree about the squire! But, I'm not convinced about the depreciation being equal across brands. E.g. cars, there is a established trend that premium & popular vehicles, attract higher resale in the secondhand market. Locally brands like BMW, VW, Toyota have been noted to traditionally depreciate less, as do certain models such as double cabs.

Does the same logic apply to guitars? - from a little observation this year (Gear Junkie, Gumtree, SA Music Store) - One example : it's seems a lot easier to move a Fender (Particularly Classic Vibe, Highway One, Baja models) than a Cort. You may eventually get your 50% on the Cort, but it'll very likely take a lot longer.

Demand/Supply economics at work perhaps? I dunno, it's just what I've observed.
Still being able to score a very playable Pacifica for the same money as a Squire is a no brainer - Pacficia all day, every day. ?

chris77

If money was no object to me you can bet your hiney that I would be swimming in custom shop models from the big brands and instruments hand built to my desires and whims by the finest luthiers available. ? But because money is a factor, I have to look at value. And that is where it gets tricky... To what degree do I value what? As it stands now, I cannot afford or justify spending big bucks on the guitars I dream of, so I compromise. The name on the headstock and where it was built is nice, but not a deal breaker. I have evolved my own twisted sense of what matters to me (for instance I reckon a lot of mediocre guitars are often only a few small mods and a decent setup away from being really good guitars), as will everybody else have.
To some the name on the headstock carries far more weight than to others. Some place a bigger value on heritage, others place a bigger value on bang for your buck. Some like to buy a guitar with future modding in mind, others prefer a guitar to be a finished product when they buy it. It all varies and although some folks might have similar tastes and preferences, no two will ever be exactly alike. Now, some folks might be willing to tell you in great detail why their own preferences are better than those of others and how stupid those other folks are for not seeing it the same way as they do. I don't believe in that. Your opinion is as valid to you as mine is to me because you won't value the same things to the same degree as I do, and vice versa. It seems logical to assume that an instrument's price is indicative to what it is worth, but really, there are far more variables to consider than only the price when determining the worth of something.

singemonkey

V8 wrote: Heh, I do agree about the squire! But, I'm not convinced about the depreciation being equal across brands. E.g. cars, there is a established trend that premium & popular vehicles, attract higher resale in the secondhand market. Locally brands like BMW, VW, Toyota have been noted to traditionally depreciate less, as do certain models such as double cabs.

Does the same logic apply to guitars? - from a little observation this year (Gear Junkie, Gumtree, SA Music Store) - One example : it's seems a lot easier to move a Fender (Particularly Classic Vibe, Highway One, Baja models) than a Cort. You may eventually get your 50% on the Cort, but it'll very likely take a lot longer.

Demand/Supply economics at work perhaps? I dunno, it's just what I've observed.
Still being able to score a very playable Pacifica for the same money as a Squire is a no brainer - Pacficia all day, every day. ?

Guitars are not cars. Most do not depreciate. You just take a hit buying them new. And that hit seems to constantly hover around 40%-50% of the price at the store. Some guitars go out of fashion - there was a time when you could pick up a Jackson Soloist for nothing. But that's not the same as depreciation. And wait long enough there's a good chance that they come back in style.

If you buy a 2nd hand Les Paul for R15,000, chances are in 5 years time you'll sell it for R15,000 + inflation. Same with an Epiphone or a Cort. It is true that some guitars move more easily. And this is due to fashion. But most of the less well known guitars - like Corts for example - sell at considerably less in the shops. And thus getting your 50% is less of an ask.

So yeah. I agree that it takes longer to sell some brands. But they don't generally sell for a smaller fraction of their new price. And, like I said, if you're the person that bought that Gibson Les Paul Standard for R55,000 (which is reportedly what they'll cost in SA soon after Gibson's price hike - essentially thrice their 2nd hand price), you lose a heck of a lot more when you resell than the person who bought their Cort for R8,000.