Tone woods...??? (wooden spoon post)

Spyke · 2009-02-10T09:26:13+00:00

While my knowledge of tone woods and the like are functional at best, I thought I'd learn a little more by starting a bit of a debate, friendly of course. I...

Tone woods...??? (wooden spoon post)

CDee

Wizard wrote: Had an epiphany yesterday.
Saw yet another guitar that looked 'just right'.
It's colour was described as 'Dark Violin Sunburst'.
Maybe there's a connection ...

http://www.musik-schmidt.de/images/product_images/original_images/Ibanez-SZR-520-DVS_1.jpg

Hey Wizard, I think we should change your name to 'Woody' :roflmao:

But seriously, that is a nice looking finish...

Wizard

Alan - there are some magic fantasy bodies in that link.
I really like the "no pickguard" approach.

Methinks its time to start thinking about making a guitar body. I don't back myself to generate a "burst" finish, but the plain finishes are just great.
I'll wait for Manfred to make all the mistakes ? ... then capitalise on the experience.
I think a flame maple top over a mahogany base; bolted to a ready-made rosewood fingerboard.

And if I stuff it up ... I'll just do it again ?

P.S. I already have a nickname of "Woody" but for completely different reasons.
Went to a Cowboy fancy dress, with a plastic hat and gun - and ended up looking just like Woody from Toy Story.
Nice co-incidence ?

Manfred-Klose

I'll wait for Manfred to make all the mistakes ... then capitalise on the experience.

...And i have made quite a few mistakes so far, stupid little things.

Wizard

This recession is making MOST stuff cheaper.
Just not my woodwork hobby.
Went to Country Woods this morning to perve at their 'bargain bin' - almost empty.
Got some interesting planks of Cyprus - as a new wood to try out.
Even that wasn't given away too cheaply

The owner says most clients are now wanting their offcuts - previously they abandoned them.

Manfred-Klose

The owner says most clients are now wanting their offcuts - previously they abandoned them.

More and more people are starting to build their own instruments, its only a matter of time..........

or as i like to say, life's too short to spend your time playing on a normal guitar.

Wizard

Manfred Klose wrote: More and more people are starting to build their own instruments, its only a matter of time..........

After seeing the price of the bodies I like ... and the capability I have in my workshop ... I am beginning to add 2 and 2 together

Wizard

I tested a piece of African Mahogany as a candidate for marimba bars.
--> NOT good.
Doesn't ring clearly and sustain the note like Padauk or Madagascan Rosewood.

Two very different jobs for the tonewood:
- primary source of the sound itself
- secondary soundboard to amplify the primary sounce; while imposing its own timbre on the sound

In percussion instruments the tonewood is the source of the sound itself.
In acoustic guitars, violins and piano's the tonewood is the soundboard made to vibrate by the energy from the strings
In a banjo or kora, the 'soundboard' is a membrane similar to a drum

Soundboards are generally large, thin 'plates' made to resonate by energy transferred by a bridge.
Air resonance in a tube acts as the amplifier for a marimba.

Good tonewoods for direct percussion:
--> rosewood, padauk, kiaat, ...

Good tonewoods for soundboards:
--> spruce, redwood, koa, mahogany, ...

Wizard

Some more insights from my learnings ...

The top of an acoustic guitar is the soundboard - its job is to vibrate and generate sound.
Back and sides are designed to reflect sound.
Different jobs entirely.

Spruce good for resonance; Maple good for reflection.

Now I understand why my marimba's with maple frames sounded the best; and pine frames sounded the worst.
Maple reflected the sound well; pine absorbed it.

(New design idea --> need to have a maple bottom plate for marimba's)

Wizard

Political conflict in Madagascar - will it affect supply of Madagascan rosewood?

AlanRatcliffe

IINM It's restricted by CITES already, and what you get is all old stock, so I don't think the political situation will change that much.

Wizard

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: IINM It's restricted by CITES already, and what you get is all old stock ...

Thanks for the heads up. Perhaps I should stock up. (wait - that needs money)
Country Woods has already sold all its decent stock.

Bob-Dubery

Wizard wrote:
Alan Ratcliffe wrote: IINM It's restricted by CITES already, and what you get is all old stock ...
Thanks for the heads up. Perhaps I should stock up. (wait - that needs money)
Country Woods has already sold all its decent stock.

Buying some wood just because it's that wood seems like an increasingly fruitless activity to me. You can still occasionally get legal Brazilian rosewood, but quite often you buy the palette of wood and then start finding out why it hasn't already been made into guitars. This may be part of the reason that new guitars with Brazilian back and sides are so expensive - the luthier has to charge more for the wood that he can use to compensate for the wood that he bought and can't use.

The other alternative is to luck into a beam that is salvaged from an old building - which does occasionally happen, but you can't plan for that.

Somebody told me that CF Martin purchase a lot of 2nd Martin guitars purely for the back and sides. They will strip everything down, discard the top and neck and resuse the brazilian back and sides for a new guitar.

Wizard

Just spent the afternoon fine tuning marimba bars made from Madagscan Rosewood.
My workshop is now delightfully 'stained' with the smell of rosewood.
It really is delightful stuff.

WantzChas

I came across this:

http://www.taylorguitars.com/guitars/archive/older/pallet.html

Quite funny actually, but awesome.

Gearhead

Nothing new there. In 1862 Torres built a guitar with back and sides of paper mache to prove that the top was the only thing that mattered. Apparently it was a great instrument, but I'm not convinced anymore that backs and sides don't matter. Tiger can hit shots no one else can hit and it's not worthwhile trying to hit those.

Bob-Dubery

Well here's a guitar made from non-traditional woods - oak with a pine top, with all wood recovered from whisky distilleries.

http://www.guitargal.com/cgi-bin/display.pl?db=db1&tp=tp2&show=138

This was not a one off. Fylde produce these on an on-going basis, and it's partly about finding alternative sources of wood. Go to http://www.fyldeguitars.com/guitars.html and click on "Single Malt Ariel" to get more details.

Wizard

Bought some Tung Oil today ...