Using bone as a nut vs Plastic

Manfred-Klose

I did some research on the net for using a bone nut rather than a the plactic nut, and this is my conclusion:

*Bone "could" sound better than man made materials becuase of its low mass and solid structure, the more vibrating string energy will pass through it to inside the guitar. Altough it all comes to personal taste, i think you'll need pretty sensitive ears to hear the difference, or am i wrong?

*Although fossilized walrus,mammoth is recommended it can become pricy for a piece of bone, but beef bone is also a option.

*Bone is only recommended for guitars with a solid bridge, in other words a guitar with a tremolo will wear out the bone with excesive use, for that application a graphite nut is recommended

So why not?

With bone you'll sometimes end up with soft,hollow and dence spots inbetween the bone that can give a unbalanced tone. One should make a few of them and deside which one sounds the best.

(The info i supplied may not be correct as i got it from random websites on the net)

Do you guys have any experience with a bone nut, or have a guitar with bone nut on it?
Would like to hear your opinion on it.

g1

In my opinion:

The nut material is for the most part a moot point. The nut will only affect the sound when you are playing open strings. Therefore the objective in my opinion is not to get the best sounding nut (if such a thing exists) but to get a nut that sounds as similar as possible to a fretted note. I'm still quite partial to the idea of zero frets.

Although functionally speaking the material may play a part in the effectiveness of vibratos.

Riaan-Combrink

g1 wrote: I'm still quite partial to the idea of zero frets.

Hey, G1 - thanks for the post. I'd never heard of a zero fret before, so had to do a quick Wiki! That's my one new guitar fact for today! 8)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_fret

Question: doesn't the idea of the zero fret fundamentally defeat one of (IMHO) the main dynamic components of a guitar's sound? You can play fretted chords/notes in so many different positions (with so many different tonalities), that losing the entirely distinctive sound of open chords/notes (as part of the musical pallette) seems a minus rather than a plus to me?

Manfred-Klose

I've got an old guitar that has a zero fret, when playing open chords it sounds real percussive rather than soothing like it does sound with a nut.
I would say it all come down to the style of music you play.

andrewjbryson

thanks Manfred , just the discussion I was looking for ?

Im looking at putting a Graphtech Trem nut onto my Standard Mexican Stratocaster.

At the moment its got a normal plastic one that I assume come with them stock.

However, It looks as though it has been raised a little bit, and now the bone sits high,

and the strings are "cutting" deep into the bone.

The action on the lower few frets arent so nice (1 - 5th fret) , when the action on the higher frets are perfect.

So can anyone tell me how I would go about putting on a graphtech trem nut, once I get one.
What tools would I need, etc...

Any help would be appreciated

Gearhead

+1 on the g1 opinion about the importance of nut material. The most important part to me is that nuts need to ssslliiiiiiiide (or lock).

@Andrew Don't the Graphtech nuts come profiled and slotted? The thing you need to check before ordering is that the top radius, width and string spread match your keyboard radius, or you will run into installation or intonation trouble. Modern Strats have a different radius from traditional ones (9.5 vs. 7.25 inch if I'm not mistaken).
Taking the old nut out will be a breeze with a small hammer and something to tap on the side. Put a tie-wrap round the neck to stop wood from chipping out. Putting in the new nut hopefully needs sanding paper to get the width down to that of the slot. A drop of glue on the bottom middle should be enough, preferably fast drying otherwise holding the nut down center becomes such a bore....

LMinnie

I do abit of amatuer knife making in my spare time...and I can honestly tell you that working with bone STINKS!!....literally....I have worked whale bone & deer antelar while making handles for the blades.

I tried a piece of it as a nut on a friends guitar and I 'll be honest...I didnt hear a difference...just the terrible smell of burnt hair that was evident whenever you opened the case...

???

AlanRatcliffe

From a book being written by some bloke:

"Positioned at the top of the neck, the nut is the starting point for the "speaking length" of the string and is crucial to the tone and the operation of the guitar.
Many discount the tone of a guitar's nut, thinking that it has little effect on the tone other than that of the open strings. While it has the biggest effect on the open strings, it does have a subtle effect on the overall tone too, as the whole neck vibrates as a whole. Anything which enhances or diminishes the resonance of the headstock or neck affects the resonance of the instrument as a whole. You may have noticed that the strings vibrate a little behind the fretted note, and the open strings will resonate in sympathy with it too. The nut in particular has the downward pressure of the strings and transmits a lot of vibration to the neck."

I have had more than a few dull guitars come to life after changing out the plastic nut for bone or Tusq.

Also from the book:
"Bone is the traditional choice when it comes to nuts, and has been used for years by most of the major manufacturers. It generally has very good tone, but is porous, so can have quite a bit of tonal variation from piece to piece, with some nuts sounding better than others. It is harder than many newer materials, so it is very durable, but this hardness also makes it a little tougher to cut and easier to crack or break while cutting. It can be unpleasant to work with as it gives off an offensive smell when cut rapidly or ground. Strings can easily bind in nuts made of bone if they are not cut properly, but properly cut they are one of the top choices for guitars. Bone is often available in both a natural creamy white and a white, bleached variety. The bleached bone is not as slippery as the unbleached, so the unbleached is the better choice of the two."

Do not use superglues for fixing nuts - if you or a luthier ever have to remove the nut for any reason, you will regret using it as it loves both wood and most nut materials. A drop of cold glue is fine.

Riaan-Combrink

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Tusq.

Had to look that up too!! Saw that "q" and "k" are too far apart on the qwerty keyboard for that to be a typo. Inferred it must be a "bacon vs macon" thing due to international treaties, etc, and there you go: "Man-made-ivory". I keep on learning around here. ?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/coleman005/Tusq.htm

DaFiz

I fitted a brass finger nut to an Ibanez Concord years ago and it didn't make the huge difference I was expecting.
I never tried bone, but I imagine today's plastic nuts have been carefully designed to be adequate.

What kind of bone would they use... elephant? :-\

AlanRatcliffe

The white Graph Tech nut and saddle material (boron polytrinate). In fact they recently changed the name of the black material (same stuff with Teflon) they use for the nuts and saddles to "Black Tusq".

DaFiz

DaFiz wrote: What kind of bone would they use... elephant? :-\

This response was supposed to be just a little sarcastic. Although I wear a leather jacket on my bike I have to assume it's a by product from the steak I ate. A finger nut is a different matter... chicken bones are too soft and small. An elephant's bone will be hard and large enough, but NO in this modern era there are materials designed specifically for the job (teflon, carbon fibre, moondust?) and we should never be using animal products for entertainment. (imho) >☹

AlanRatcliffe

I'm completely against using Ivory or any other elephant product - if there is no demand, there is no market for poaching. End of story.

The bone used for nuts is generally cow bone.

Riaan-Combrink

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I'm completely against using Ivory or any other elephant product - if there is no demand, there is no market for poaching. End of story.

+ 1

Riaan-Combrink

Riaan C wrote:
Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I'm completely against using Ivory or any other elephant product - if there is no demand, there is no market for poaching. End of story.
+ 1

I'm not sure if everyone caught these stories when they broke. The poachers are so sick/desperate that they even steal from dead animals in SA museums:

http://www.thetimes.co.za/PrintArticle.aspx?ID=748593

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-04-14-stolen-rhino-horns-could-be-deadly-says-museum

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20021115054324730C815660

When I was in the Congo I was offered stunning ebony/ivory chess sets for $15. At the same markets parrots and chimps were on sale to tourists for next to nothing. Its the drivers of the demand (tourists, collectors, people wanting exotic stuff) that fuels poaching, not the actual poachers. In most cases, the poachers are desperate people trying to survive that have identified a market where they can get a few dollars (in Congo, a medical doctor earns $20 a month). The big money is made by the distributors (the serious criminals), and they can only make it 'cause people buy it.

So, yeah. I agree with Alan's approach. One should never think a little slither of ivory, nut size, won't make a difference. It fuels a cycle of senseless slaughter and economic exploitation of desperate people.

Off the soapbox now ... :-[

Heath

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:

The bone used for nuts is generally cow bone.

wonder if i can use mother in law bone ...... and is that considered a senseless slaughter......

and how would it effect tone and playablity ...... Just askin

g1

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: "Positioned at the top of the neck, the nut is the starting point for the "speaking length" of the string and is crucial to the tone and the operation of the guitar.
Many discount the tone of a guitar's nut, thinking that it has little effect on the tone other than that of the open strings. While it has the biggest effect on the open strings, it does have a subtle effect on the overall tone too, as the whole neck vibrates as a whole. Anything which enhances or diminishes the resonance of the headstock or neck affects the resonance of the instrument as a whole. You may have noticed that the strings vibrate a little behind the fretted note, and the open strings will resonate in sympathy with it too. The nut in particular has the downward pressure of the strings and transmits a lot of vibration to the neck."

Call me a stirrer if you want but imo such contributions would be insignificantly small.

FatBoy

wonder if i can use mother in law bone ...... and is that considered a senseless slaughter......

and how would it effect tone and playablity ...... Just askin

Senseless? I think not, you may just be the next pioneer of tone! Might just be the thing you need for that poop faced half-dead swamp hippo with TB blues sound. I say go for it and report back once your wife allows you to touch a guitar again!