Brazilian Rosewood

Wizard

Was just looking at Rare Woods website and see they have some Brazilian Rosewood for guitar making! Probably the only chance in one's life to get some. Might have to sell the house though.

Wildaker

My own view is Just Say No. We're getting to the stage where that's a bit like saying, "It may be my last change to taste Dodo". Your ethics may differ, but please do question/challenge them before diving in.

Sorry if this offends you, but there's a strand of lutherie that is little different to those who want to hunt endangered species because it's their "last chance" and, frankly, I don't like it.

Charlie4

I still find the whole Braz RW hype pretty ridiculous, especially the prices. These days it's more about being able to say you own a Braz wood guitar than anything else. It does look beautiful though. Ex. Marc Mainguard.

The best acoustic I've ever heard in my life was built by Foster Guitar works. Think it was Engelmann Spruce with Indian RW back and sides. Most pristine harmonics I've ever heard. Was a true privilege.

Something Bob Taylor mentioned once is that we are so obsessed with perfect aesthetics that we're willing to waste tons of wood in order to achieve visual perfection.

I'm actually curious whether wood knots have a sonic inferiority or are merely unpleasant to the eye. :-\

Bob-Dubery

Mike wrote: My own view is Just Say No. We're getting to the stage where that's a bit like saying, "It may be my last change to taste Dodo". Your ethics may differ, but please do question/challenge them before diving in.

Sorry if this offends you, but there's a strand of lutherie that is little different to those who want to hunt endangered species because it's their "last chance" and, frankly, I don't like it.

Any Brazilian that comes on the market now is likely to have been felled a long time ago or from a tree that fell dead in a forest. It gets reclaimed from old buildings and furniture.

The problem may be moving it across borders. There would have to be proper certification - especially if you want to move it in or out of the USA. Certification would also make it unlikely it was illegally harvested.

Brazilian that you see on guitars sold as new is not necessarily illegal. Marc Maingard has some that was felled a long time ago and which he bought legally. Martin, I'm told, buy up old guitars with Brazilian back and sides and reuse the carcasses, selling them as new guitars (usually limited editions).

Please remember that not all "Rosewood" is controlled. My Morgan has East Indian Rosewood which is grown in renewable plantations. Even Brazilian may be legal. I came close to buying a Lowden a few years ago and they use Brazilian for the bridge and peg head veneer. The dealer had certificates for all the Brazilian on the guitar and was going to obtain all the necessary customs clearances.

Shibbibilybob

yeah that Brazilian at rarewoods is old, and has all of the necessary paperwork...however I think it'd still be illegal to sell a guitar you had built from it in the states, or to have an american luthier build you a guitar from that wood...America just tightened their CITES restrictions on trading Brazilian.
The prices they're asking at Rarewoods are not unreasonable, but still high enough that it rules me out of procuring a set.

Chocklit_Thunda

Well my old man and I were planning in getting a set.... And then we were told that they wouldn't send up to jhb without it having been checked out beforehand...... Some of the pieces are cracked or holey.... It would be the perfect around for the both of us as I build guitars and whatnot and he only really does decorative inlays so the offcuts would be perfect for him.

Would any forum members in the area with some knowledge about wood be willing to go check out what stock they have for me? Just to check that the piece isn't too full of flaws or that the cracks are repairable? If I'm ever down in Cape Town I'll probably repay you with an ice cold beer and a steak or something to that effect.

Edit: they WOULDN'T send it up to jhb without it being checked first.

Bob-Dubery

It says on their website that this is old wood, not recently cut. They had it in stock some years ago and then thought it had got lost - but they found it again.

They also say that they have about 30 back and sides sets.

It's a prettier wood than the now usual East Indian rosewood with more interesting figures in the grain. Some say it sounds better, but that's not a unanimous verdict.

There are other woods that can (at present) be legally used, that are attractive and which are reckoned to sound very similar.

Cocobolo

(this darkens with age. My Morgan has cocobol bindings that were once nearly blood red but are now almost as dark as the East Indian rosewood back and sides - but East Indian doesn't have the same figuring)

Camatillo

Ziricote (my choice for a dream, money-no-limit guitar)

African blackwood (here with a little steak of sapwood)

Explorerlover

Wrong thread Bob....this should be in the pr0n thread.. ?

Wizard

Rosewoods come from the genus Dalbergia.
Cocobolo, camatillo, kingwood, tulipwood and many others are in the same "family".
My view is that wood you like is good wood; irrespective of "brand".
But we need to respect scarcity.
There are many beautiful woods which aren't (as) threatened.
Kiaat, knysna blackwood; even Rhodesian teak.

Saddens me that there is incentive to ensure sustainable suppliers of good old Scotch whisky; but not good old wood.

peterleroux

Wizard wrote: ...
Saddens me that there is incentive to ensure sustainable suppliers of good old Scotch whisky; but not good old wood.

There are a few sustainable plantations of hardwoods- one of the things the VOC did in Batavia was plant teak saplings back in van Riebeeck's day- and Indonesia now has Teak plantations of old-growth timber. Pity it's not considered a tone wood. So it can be done, but by someone who has a long view on return on investment

Chocklit_Thunda

That's one reason my pops wants it. It's an investment piece. He does it with lots of different woods you don't come across easily like imbuia and ebony and afrormosia.

Wildaker

X-rated Bob wrote: Any Brazilian that comes on the market now is likely to have been felled a long time ago or from a tree that fell dead in a forest. It gets reclaimed from old buildings and furniture.

Yes, but re-using it for guitars perpetuates demand, which encourages the sale of wood that is less likely to have come from a sustainable source, and so on (which is why I choose to eschew Brazilian rosewood these days, however pretty it may be, and it can be stunning, indeed).

You could make the same argument for ivory, but few would, because they see the relationship between a market in re-worked old ivory and more elephants being killed today. Of course, trees in Brazil do tend to trigger less of an emotional response than charismatic megafauna...