Do you retune when you slap on a capo?

Josh-Hayes · 2014-04-24T18:43:09+00:00

As I said in the title, when you find yourself using a capo do you tune to compensate for the resulting offset due to the uneven pressure on the strings. I...

Do you retune when you slap on a capo?

Squonk

IceCreamMan wrote: I see some capos now have built in tuners, if time is of the essence possibly this could save u a wee bit of time...

very sharp ICM

DonRoos

Putting the capo too close to the fret will stretch the strings by pulling down just before the fret and extending the distance the sting has to travel to get over the fret. I have found that about 1/3 away from the fret is about right - about where you would press with a finger - to minimise stretch and minimise buzz.

I mostly transpose but that sometimes results in strange chords that are difficult to play and then it is just easier to slip the capo on.

Arno-West

Sorry mate, I can't give you my 2c or any advice on this matter - I don't use a capo.....ever.

Bob-Dubery

Haha! THat's what I get for reading the manual ?

I think the thing is to get the pressure right on the capo. With the Shubb there's a procedure you go through to set it up for a guitar, with the G7 there is no spring pressing down and you can adjust the pressure on the fly so you don't have a problem with the strings being pressed down too hard - but I take your point.

Is it a cheat or a crutch? I've seen some great players use capos live - generally more when playing solo than when with a band. If you play fingerstyle and alternate tunings then I think the capo has to come into play. You use a tuning that gives you the bass notes that you want but also allows you to play up high on the other strings, but you can't sing the song in that key... a capo will come to your rescue.

I've seen really, really good players use them. Players who are good enough to not need a crutch. Guy Buttery, Tony Cox, Martin Simpson.... a lot of guys who play solo, finger style and in non-standard tunings. This cured my hang up about OMG am I using it because I can really only play in one key.

Check this out. Note how Russ Barenberg is capoed way up so that he can play that high part that keeps out of the way of the other guitar and adds some great ear candy.

Even the dobro player in that clip, Jerry Douglas, uses a capo sometimes. (Nitebob - if you want to get into country lap steel playing then Douglas is a guy you want to pay attention to)

So it can be a crutch, but it can be a valid tool as well.

Shibbibilybob

I had never ever considered my capo to be a crutch. Finding alternate ways to play chords is all well and good, but it's not just about hitting the same notes, different voiceings sound different, and sometimes you have to play a chord in a certain way in order to have your fingers ready in time to play the next one.
No shame whatsoever in using a capo, and the G7 is, in my experience, the most awesome one around.

And no, I don't retune once I put it on, but I do adjust it so that it sounds best when it's on (as the guys above said, you get used to it and kinda learn how to place it for best results).

Squonk

A lot more to Capo's than we think

Listen to what he says at the end

AlanRatcliffe

Squonk wrote: A lot more to Capo's than we think

Listen to what he says at the end

"Someone said that using a capo is like cheating. Well, so is frets." ?

Keaggy's a great player. He's getting a positively gorgeous sound from that Bedell guitar.

Bob-Dubery

And just to confer unarguable street credibility upon the capo

guyfeld

I play acoustic live mostly tuned down to D with a capo on 2nd fret and it gives me a very different tone and feel which I've become accustomed to, but man, I spend about 10% of time onstage tuning and retuning ...I've tried all the makes of capo and they are all a pain in the ass! Viva auto-tune for guitar acoustic (if it ever gets here) ?

Bob-Dubery

Strings are designed to work at a certain tension. Guitars are usually set up to play properly in standard tuning. I know that when Andy McGibbon sets up a guitar he wants to know if you're going to play it in DADGAD or whatever - which says that tuning makes a difference to how he sets it up. I know that on my Morgan if I go to drop D nothing much untowards happens, but drop the 6th down to C and the 5th to G.... too much tension off the neck and all the other strings go out as well.

So if you tune down a tone and then capo up you still have less tension on the neck and the strings aren't operating at the tension they're designed for. Something might not go to plan.

I remember seeing Martin Carthy in London a few years ago. His regular tuning is CGCDGA (the A on the 6th is equal to a 2nd fret note on the 3rd string in regular tuning). That's low. He was retuning after every song. Since when he changes tuning for one or two songs he changes guitar rather than retuning I assume he has that guitar setup for that tuning. But still it "wanders".

So if this is your regular MO I'd get the guitar setup in that tuning, with the capo on.

Is your guitar going sharp or flat? If sharp the problem is probably the nut.

Josh-Hayes

Just to clarify, I am not experiencing problems when using a capo. I was rather wanting to get a bit of a discussion going... ?

I have never seen a capo as a crutch, but rather as another tool that can be very effective when used properly. Especially when playing with other people, as some of you guys pointed out.

DonRoos wrote: Putting the capo too close to the fret will stretch the strings by pulling down just before the fret and extending the distance the sting has to travel to get over the fret. I have found that about 1/3 away from the fret is about right - about where you would press with a finger - to minimise stretch and minimise buzz.

This is one thing that I wanted to get at as well. Often when I put on a capo in the first three frets the tension change on the strings causes them to go a little off, but further on down the neck has never given me hassles. I speak from playing on several guitars.

AlanRatcliffe

Josh Hayes wrote: This is one thing that I wanted to get at as well. Often when I put on a capo in the first three frets the tension change on the strings causes them to go a little off, but further on down the neck has never given me hassles. I speak from playing on several guitars.

Usually means the nut could be cut a bit lower... ?

DonRoos

Oh, and while we are talking about capo's I guess it goes without saying that the radius of the capo must match the radius of the neck. My first capo bought about 25 years ago had a straight metal strip that is hinged on one end to swivel and latch into a groove in the spring loaded rear section. I had to take the plastic tubing off and then pannel beat the strip to the correct radius for my 12-string and then replace the tubing. It still works on my 12 and 6 string acoustics but have I added a Jim Dunlop trigger grip capo last year that is really easy to put on and take off. The old one needed two hands, one to press the spring and the other to latch the strip. The only place I could keep it close at hand was clamped over the bridge. The trigger grip only needs one hand and can then be clamped to the head for easy access.

Josh, Alan is probably correct with the first 3 frets being a problem. If the bridge is too high then the strings need to be pulled down till they meet the fretboard. But if the capo is causing that problem then you probably have a similar issue playing chords in the first 3 frets. A quick setup will solve that easily.

Josh-Hayes

I see what you guys mean.

singemonkey

My problem is a shubb that I use on different guitars. I tend to select a guitar on whim a lot of the time - rather than always use the same guitar for the same things (and sometimes a guitar will be out of action for one reason or another so I just pick up another because, hey, I can). So the capo is never adjusted right for any given guitar.

As for those who're so proud about transposing, how do you get the open string timbre at different positions on the neck (because that's the reason most of us use a capo rather than transposing)?

Bob-Dubery

singemonkey wrote: My problem is a shubb that I use on different guitars. I tend to select a guitar on whim a lot of the time - rather than always use the same guitar for the same things (and sometimes a guitar will be out of action for one reason or another so I just pick up another because, hey, I can). So the capo is never adjusted right for any given guitar.

You need a G7. Drop hints.

rikus

X-rated Bob wrote:
singemonkey wrote: My problem is a shubb that I use on different guitars. I tend to select a guitar on whim a lot of the time - rather than always use the same guitar for the same things (and sometimes a guitar will be out of action for one reason or another so I just pick up another because, hey, I can). So the capo is never adjusted right for any given guitar.
You need a G7. Drop hints.

I've got a G7 Newport, which snaps open and closed to a predetermined height you set with a little thumbwheel. Quick to set up when changing guitars/frets (like maybe half a turn of the wheel either way). Super quick to put on once you've already set it up and you know it's going to press down exactly the same amount each time.

Bob-Dubery

Rikus wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote:
singemonkey wrote: My problem is a shubb that I use on different guitars. I tend to select a guitar on whim a lot of the time - rather than always use the same guitar for the same things (and sometimes a guitar will be out of action for one reason or another so I just pick up another because, hey, I can). So the capo is never adjusted right for any given guitar.
You need a G7. Drop hints.

I've got a G7 Newport, which snaps open and closed to a predetermined height you set with a little thumbwheel. Quick to set up when changing guitars/frets (like maybe half a turn of the wheel either way). Super quick to put on once you've already set it up and you know it's going to press down exactly the same amount each time.

I was thinking of the original G7 Performance capo which you squeeze shut, and then release with the little thumb catch.

I don't understand the rest of the G7 range - they're just copies of other people's stuff and don't have the one feature that made the G7 capo so quick and easy to use. With the original G7 there is no setup required. It's portable in the way that the Kyser is and the Shubb isn't, but you can easily control the tension so that you don't get too much or too little.

rikus

X-rated Bob wrote: I was thinking of the classic G7 which you squeeze shut, and then release with the little thumb catch. I don't understand the rest of the G7 range - they're just copies of other people's stuff and don't have the one feature that makes the G7 capo so easy to use. With the classic G7 there is no setup required. It's portable in the way that the Kyser is and the Shubb isn't, but you can easily control the tension so that you don't get too much or too little.

Totally agree! I needed a capo in a pinch. Went looking for a classic G7, but couldn't find one. I ended up buying the Newport. Now, I don't think I'd change to the classic though. It's so slim and work so well. I just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...