ja well.... (instructions in Tab)

Bob-Dubery

This morning I was reading a copy of Guitar (or Guitar Player) whilst sitting upon the throne of contemplation. I was looking at a tab of a particular peace of playing. At one point there was an indication of two strings being bent simultaneously starting at position 0 (IE open string). There was a handy annotation something like this: "Behind nut bend on both strings, then apply vibrato from behind the nut on the 2nd string only."

Well I suppose that's easy for some folks.

Chocklit_Thunda

Jerry Donahue does this quite often. It works well on a Tele without the string trees in but does take butt loads of practice ?

AlanRatcliffe

Know how you feel. ? I remember a similar reaction to Vai's instruction to "play all the available Es on the guitar in a chaotic frenzy". ?

I use behind the nut bends and vibrato occasionally. I'm far (far, far) off Donahue's level and still find it difficult to control, but it's possible.

=

[deleted]

ooh! so smooooooooth!

Stoffeltoo

Ha! If I could play like that, who would want a normal job?
Tried it on my 'coustic, need about 1 tonne of pressure to bend behind nut :-[

Bob-Dubery

Chocklit_Thunda wrote: Jerry Donahue does this quite often. It works well on a Tele without the string trees in but does take butt loads of practice ?

In this case it was a strat with a tree on the 1st and 2nd - the strings being bent. And the floating bridge to fight.

Keira-WitherKay

check out Jim Campilongo for behind the nut bends ..a master at this
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Chocklit_Thunda

X-rated Bob wrote: In this case it was a strat with a tree on the 1st and 2nd - the strings being bent. And the floating bridge to fight.

Good lord ??? are his hands made of concrete?? It hurts to to even a short bend on my tele ?

Bob-Dubery

Chocklit_Thunda wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: In this case it was a strat with a tree on the 1st and 2nd - the strings being bent. And the floating bridge to fight.
Good lord ??? are his hands made of concrete?? It hurts to to even a short bend on my tele ?

Modern players are softies. A lot of 60s players tell tales of not having a choice of gauges. To get a light set you bought a set of "guitar strings", moved them all over one position do the string meant to be first was used as second etc and then you'd use a high banjo string for the first. They probably had to be a bit tougher than contemporary players.

Donahue was born in 1946. In 1960 he saw Gerry McGee bending strings, including behind the nut bends. McGee reportedly picked up that trick from banjo player Earl Scruggs. McGee was the son of a bluegrass fiddler and would have been familiar with the tricks of the country trade. Donahue signed up for lessons. McGee later joined the Ventures.

The player of the piece I ran my beady eye over is Richard Thompson. It's the intro to the song 'Calvary Cross" that he recorded in 1973. You can hear the track here. He can also remember a time before there was a choice of string gauges.

I don't know how that technique migrated to Britain, but by the time that Thompson recorded this he would have seen Donahue playing with Sandy Denny (and possibly on other sessions). Donahue moved to the UK in the late 60s (he played with Gerry Rafferty for a while, then hooked up with Denny). So there's one possible route.

Chocklit_Thunda

X-rated Bob wrote: Modern players are softies. A lot of 60s players tell tales of not having a choice of gauges. To get a light set you bought a set of "guitar strings", moved them all over one position do the string meant to be first was used as second etc and then you'd use a high banjo string for the first. They probably had to be a bit tougher than contemporary players.

True. I've heard of this string gauge thing before. Strange to think that in 50 years we went from one size fits all strinsg to specially calibrated sets for different players. The players of old were definitely a harder bunch than we are today!

As for that Richard Thompson track, really cool! It actually has a somewhat Indian vibe to it with the constant drone and the numerous bends. Also reminds me a bit of Tinariwen with all the hamer-ons, pull-offs and drone notes.

I suppose the technique could have been there all along from older bluegrass/folk musicians? Still, a very interesting technique.

AlanRatcliffe

X-rated Bob wrote: Modern players are softies.

+1. ? Lots of classic players developed powerful hands from learning on .012 or .013 gauge strings with wound 3rds.

Chocklit_Thunda wrote: I suppose the technique could have been there all along from older bluegrass/folk musicians?

It's a country player technique. Imitating pedal steel licks on guitars that usually have no trem.

Bob-Dubery

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote: Modern players are softies.
+1. ? Lots of classic players developed powerful hands from learning on .012 or .013 gauge strings with wound 3rds.

Chocklit_Thunda wrote: I suppose the technique could have been there all along from older bluegrass/folk musicians?
It's a country player technique. Imitating pedal steel licks on guitars that usually have no trem.

There's a live Sandy Denny album with a band that features a steel player and Jerry Donahue. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the steel and the guitar - but Donahue is an exceptional case. I became familiar with his playing through his work with Joan Armatrading. I was convinced he was using a b-bender, but no - all in the hands.

In terms of hand strength, this might where acoustics come in handy even if you can't think of any other good use for them. Thompson does a lot of solo shows where he plays acoustic. He says that after a spell on the road playing acoustic (he has .012 on the first) he can't believe the strength in his hands when he picks up an electric again.

Bob-Dubery

Chocklit_Thunda wrote: As for that Richard Thompson track, really cool! It actually has a somewhat Indian vibe to it with the constant drone and the numerous bends. Also reminds me a bit of Tinariwen with all the hamer-ons, pull-offs and drone notes.

The drones sure. But drones pop up all over the place - especially in Scottish music where a lot of pipe music relies on a drone. Not always one constant note as some types of pipes can change the drone note - but you hear that in Tinariwen too where the pedalled note sometimes shifts. The hurdy gurdy also makes use of drones (and Thompson is a part time hurdy gurdist).

But the bagpipes are not Scottish in origin, nor even European. They originated in the middle east (but are still found, in various forms, all over Europe), and some musicologists theorise that most Western European folk music forms (including everything lumped under the "celtic" label) can be traced back to the Moorish occupation of the Iberian peninsular. Also that a lot of "western" instruments can be traced back to those bought across the Mediterranean by the Moors.

In the 60s there was quite a lot of importation and integration of non-Western musical ideas into Western pop music. "World Music" really began with the likes of Davey Graham and the Incredible String Band and - arguably - Brian Jones.