Chris-Mason
Having sold several guitars on this forum and concluded several deals, I have noticed a recent trend whereby forumites are offering ridiculous prices for instruments (basically taking a chance) A price marked neg is an indication that the seller is prepared to negotiate a bit not give the instrument away. Yes everyone wants to get a great deal, this I respect and I too enjoy getting a great deal however there is a difference in a fair offer and a basic insult. It takes time to send emails and pics to and fro so please respect the seller and sellers the same applies as well.
Just my thoughts, no offence meant to anyone
Saddle and nut
V8
Yeah, I had one somewhat disappointing interaction recently on GFSA - a few more on gumtree. Just seems to be the vibe out there at the moment.
AlanRatcliffe
I find lowballing annoying too, but some guys will always try because they live in hope that it'll work. Often getting a ridiculous deal is part of the whole buying experience for them.
The annoyance comes in I suppose because I work differently. If something I want is already at a fair price and I can afford it, I'll go for it. If I can't afford it, I don't contact the seller - if it means enough to me to do so, I'll scrabble around until I can afford it and then contact the seller. Selling, I price at a fair price that I think should move it and don't enter into haggling. Life's too short to entertain tyre-kickers.
I've known guys who will show you their collection and tell you how much each item is worth and how little they paid for it. That I hate - especially the ones who tell you with glee how they bought it from a little old lady who had no idea of the value.
warrenpridgeon
I spend time on classifieds and check what the new price is of something I want to buy. If the person is selling it for something I deem fair I'll buy... But if the guy is asking close to what the new price is for something I'll tell him that... sometimes they come down, sometimes they don't.
G-Man
I only lowball if the item isn't worth the asking price , ie 3000 for an ibanez gio (which I have seen before).
It is insulting though when the item is of value and you get a potential buyer really trying their luck. Happened recently when I sold my smart phone, I said make me an offer to which some lady said "200, that's all that thing is worth" to which I replied "lol".
IceCreamMan
It's a buyers market , lowball offers are part of the game...express no lowball offers on yr ads but even then it may happen...one mans lowball is another mans selling price..
Pointless getting annoyed by it though
Psean
I must say I've had pretty good experiences with the classifieds here. Selling, I've received only one offer that I think was a lowball. The only other low one I got made me realise I'd priced too high. Other than that I've got what I asked.
Buying has been even better - two guys have chucked in free extras (or just given away the item in question) ?.
But selling does seem harder at the moment. Stuff seems to be going for silly prices.
Chris-Mason
I agree it is a buyers market, thats if one can get anyone to buy as most people have serious crashflow problems due to cost of living expenses. My post on lowballing was just an interesting observation that I thought I would share.
In my experience on the forum the serious guys will want a pic or two and may have some technical questions.
Its the low ballers who often ask obvious questions, and want copious pics. Can understand anyone wanting loads of pics if they are out of town as they are not in a position to see the guitar first hand. In cases like that I ask whether they have a friend in JHB or try and make arrangements by meeting half way, like I recently did on a Natal based trade. Cape Town a bit too far.
The forum is a great place to sell and trade gear and I have met some great people through this, long may this last.
Saddle and Nut
Josh-Hayes
IceCreamMan wrote:
It's a buyers market , lowball offers are part of the game...express no lowball offers on yr ads but even then it may happen...one mans lowball is another mans selling price..
Pointless getting annoyed by it though
This!
However, I believe there is a difference between a lowball offer and genuine craziness, just as there is a difference between a reasonable asking price and taking a chance. It's then up to the seller to employ ye olde "I have (insert number) other people interested in my guitar/pedal/etc..." I find that this often helps with those annoying lowball offers if I am not negotiating on price.
Gearhead
I would say lowball offers are a lot less annoying than endless requests for more pictures - I really don't get that.
If I look at a pic of a guit, I can see two things: what model this is and how well it was taken care of. You only need one or two shots to know if you want to test the instrument, no? After all, Tone and feel can't be seen in a picture.
Oh and you can't lowball Alan, he sells stuff at ridiculously low prices already ?
Wizard
Gearhead wrote:
I would say lowball offers are a lot less annoying than endless requests for more pictures - I really don't get that.
If I look at a pic of a guit, I can see two things: what model this is and how well it was taken care of. You only need one or two shots to know if you want to test the instrument, no? After all, Tone and feel can't be seen in a picture.
Oh and you can't lowball Alan, he sells stuff at ridiculously low prices already ?
+1
free2rhyme
It's the nature of selling, guys test waters to get a deal.
I've had my fair share of lowball offers, but what irritates me more as previously said are people selling their second hand stuff at new prices and then not budging on the price. Sellers must remember that they cannot offer a warranty on items and regardless of condition, it's still second hand.
The second hand industry in SA is ridiculously expensive opposed to what I saw overseas, general rule of thumb what they use there is a 60% of retail price(obviously doesnt apply to collectibles)
All in all, lowball offers...deal with it because people won't stop. You can just politely say, "no thanks I was looking at this price instead..."-that's what I do, deal until you come to an agreement. That lowballer is still a potential buyer that shows interest in your item, if he can't afford it there's a 50% chance he knows someone who wants it that can afford it; if you are a d*ck to him; that's a 50% chance of a sale that you are throwing out the window because "he hurt your feelings with a lower than expected offer". These are the basics of selling; dont burn bridges and don't be an @ss.
Keira-WitherKay
absolutely no need to let low ball offers upset you ,
however i would draw the line when it comes to huge amounts of pics requested .....unless of course it's a rare vintage guitar with a serious price tag and the buyer is too far away to see it in person without major travel ..an accepted practise when buying vintage guitars but not for run of the mill gear
and yes if i buy 2nd hand ,meaning without a return policy ....it must be a good deal ...or i'd rather buy new and know
i can return it or exchange it for something else if i'm not happy... and of course the seller can just say NO to an offer ....
anyway i always think saying "negotiable" in an ad is just asking for a lower offer.... i say just list your price and consider/reject any offers proposed by the seller.... but by putting the words negotiable or trade in the ad opens up the door that the seller is not expecting the asking price .. and possibly desperate for a sale
exsanguinator
well, to be honest,not necesserily on here but in general..I think theres a going price and a RSA price...
I go on ebay prices...and im prepared to convert to the current exchange rate to make a purchase locally.
If its anything above that..bah!
What makes RSA so special that people can just up the value?
heres a good example...I think this is the only country in the world that anyone can sell an old car for nearly double for what he paid for it 20 years ago..LOL
who cares about lowball offers..just say no...an item priced right nearly always sells in a few days..
StephenG
i find online selling in south africa really annoying.
i advertised somehting online- not musical related.
i found an item at home i didnt even know i still owned, it was brand new in the box still, so i thought i may as well sell it - and put it on 2 websites at R1,500 - with was just less than half price of buying it new in the shop - simply because i wanted to get rid of it..
knowing online sites are full of tyre kickers, i started counting replies - i have received a total of 28 (as of last week) enquiries "Is it available?"... I reply "yes" nd you hear no more from them.. i advertised it 3 months ago.
i actually sold it to the 23rd guy who contacted me.. he didnt try haggle, nothing, EFT'ed me the money - then a week after it was posted he emailed saying he cant believe the deal he got, and he was very happy with it..
tyre kickers - they not just at 2nd hand car dealerships any more.
Ray
I think that ethics is wishful thinking. I dont believe that there is a place for such a thing. You have your price and the potential buyer has his hopes. And he says, why is this guy getting rid of all his highend stuff? Why did he buy it in the first place? Is he hardup and heading for the skids? Let's see. So he takes a poke and then you think he isnt ethical? Of course he isnt. People grow up with good moral values and ethics and end up selling their body parts when they are on the outers. And then the buyer will still negotiate downward. So what makes any for sale notice board any different?
Bob-Dubery
I think "ethics" is the wrong word here. I advertise a guitar for R10000 (or nearest reasonable offer) and somebody offers me 3k. How is that unethical? Cheeky? Maybe. Optimistic? Probably. Annoying? A bit. But there's nothing unethical about it - I am offering something for sale and he is making me an offer, an offer that I can ignore, refuse, use as a starting point for negotiations or even accept.
I sold a guitar a while back, priced down a little because I didn't want to haggle and because I wanted it gone. An offer was made. I accepted. Within 48 hours that guitar was on gumtree for more than I sold it for. Unethical? I'm not sure. The most annoying thing for me is that it says that I could have got more for it.
What might be unethical is if you're selling a '59 Les Paul for 10 grand, not understanding what you have, and I have a buyer already lined up at 50K US and don't disclose my interest or the true state of affairs. Even then it's certainly not illegal and, since you'd be happy to get your full asking price in cash with no haggling, the matter of whether or not the transaction is ethical is, let's be honest, a grey area.
I think we're talking about manners here. It seems to me to be bad form to waste somebody's time with endless enquiries about the condition of the instrument unless you've first decided that you are really interested. But bad manners is not the same as unethical, and unethical is not the same as illegal.
Ray
X-rated Bob wrote:
I think we're talking about manners here. It seems to me to be bad form to waste somebody's time with endless enquiries about the condition of the instrument unless you've first decided that you are really interested. But bad manners is not the same as unethical, and unethical is not the same as illegal.
Spot on! And there I rate the guys who go into stores and whack the crap out of the instruments, amps and pedals just to pass the time. And then a lot of them complain about the bad manners of the sales people as well.
Chris-Mason
I think that Bob has hit the nail on the head (as per usual Bob) always bringing a different perspective.
Interesting comments coming out thanks all. The topic was not meant to offend or seem to be a complaint just my own observation. The forum has great members on it and long may that last. I believe the strict moderation on the forum assists in making it a really great place for us to express opinions so well done Alan and the team.
Saddle and an ill nut, not feeling great major headaches (Tick bite fever the suspect)
