Lavalier type

Nitebob

Hi all,

Not sure if this is the right section of forum...mods welcome to move if not

This is aimed at gigging (and recording) acoustic players, and follows an old thread by Kierra about sound quality through a microphone, as well as my current awakening toward undersaddle pick-ups.

I have 2 acoustics, a Cort and Ovation. The Ovations seemed much easier to play with my style (pickless), strings being much more responsive, whereas the Cort sounded muted. I started arguing that the woven pickup element hinders the transfer of vibrations through to the soundboard (the ovation has a metal plate as pickup element, which is more condusive) I tested this theory recently, by buying a higher saddle and removing the pickup. Playing seemed much easier on the Cort, but I still prefered the Ovation....BUT THEN... I listened to room recordings (cellphone) of both guitars and the Cort blew the Ovation out of the water. The Ovation sounds better plugged in than the Cort ever did though, but the room recordings was evident.

Has anyone tried micing up with a lavalier microphone? What kind of results have you found? If it can/should be done, what do I need to consider?

I was looking at something like this:

http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/microphones/condenser-microphones/ql5cl

Currenly available for around R600. I know there are some professional mic'ing brackets available with microphones, but I can't justify spending that much moola on a guitar that cost me half of that...

As always your input is taken in high regard

Bob

AlanRatcliffe

I've never had much success with lavaliers. They end up too close to the guitar and don't capture a good balance. Omni polar patterns are more natural sounding, but more prone to feedback. Cardioids are more feedback resistant, but are prone to the proximity effect. Overall any mic attached directly to the guitar (a device designed to vibrate and resonate) is already more prone to feedback and ringing.

However, if your biggest concern is the coax pickup affecting acoustic tone (and you are correct, they do - but they are the cheapest type of piezo and the easiest to install without problems, so are what most mass manufacturers use), simply upgrade the element (or system) to a crystal or polymer one, either of which are hard and flat enough to allow vibration through to the body relatively unhindered.

Bob-Dubery

All sorts of things may have happened here.

You changed the saddle. OK... same material? If the guitar came out the factory with a cheap plastic saddle and you put in something like Tusq then you should expect a tonal boost. Odd that you bought a higher saddle and the playing got easier. That sounds like the saddle got LOWER, maybe old saddle + transducer > new saddle. If it really is higher than you have the strings breaking at a better angle over the saddle - which, again, should improve tone.

The pickup can effect tone if not properly installed. A good tech installing an aftermarket UST will always check that everything fits well so that the vibrations do get transmitted into the top properly.

There are good fitted mic options for an acoustic, but
1) They're unlikely to cost R600
2) In my experience they are best combined with some other source. They do give a more lifelike sounds but they're better used for colour with a UST or mag pickup.

Might be worth getting a new setup and the transducer put back in with that new saddle

Nitebob

@Bob, got a higher saddle to compensate for element not being there. Had the saddle upgaded to bone quite a while back by (Forster ??? I think, in Pretoria) The saddle I put in a was more than likely a cheapy

Bob-Dubery

Nitebob wrote: @Bob, got a higher saddle to compensate for element not being there. Had the saddle upgaded to bone quite a while back by (Forster ??? I think, in Pretoria) The saddle I put in a was more than likely a cheapy

OK. Scratch everything I said ? But clearly something changed when you put that saddle in and took the element out.

Nitebob

Also if the original UST wasn't properly istalled, I would've expected Foster to say something....

Thanks Alan. Think I will look at the harder options. Dankie baie

Nitebob

The plot thickens....turns out the 'woven material' on the pickup element is actually the copper shielding :-[

The pickup itself is quite hard underneath, but obviously this cannot be removed....

Is a ribbon transducer an option? If so, where can I find one?

Thx

AlanRatcliffe

Yeah - it's six piezoceramic crystals (same as the Ovation, as far as that goes) in a coaxial shield (hence "coax" pickups). Not a bad design, done properly as the soft copper coax shield compresses to even out string balance due to any inconsistencies in the saddle, rout or crystals themselves. The problem I've found with most of them is simply quality - the size tolerance in the crystals is so big that they end up screwing up the saddle to pickup body contact.

If you like the piezoceramic sound (like the Ovations), try find a Fishman AG125 - similar crystals, but in a foil screen and very tight tolerance. Have it fitted properly and you're golden. Comes in two widths: 2.8mm and 3.2 for different saddle slot widths (the narrower one is AKA the Martin Thinline pickup).

Otherwise, any polymer ribbon type (Highlander, Fishman Matrix/Prefix, Baggs Element, etc.) will give you an improved low end and smoother highs.

Nitebob

As always, Alan, a fountain of knowledge.

Thank you very much! ?

AlanRatcliffe

De nada amigo. ?