costafonix
Consider this scenario.
you've saved up for months and have finally got enough money to go for your ultimate purchase, lets say a guitar around R15K.
You see it advertised in your regular gumtree/bidorbuy/olx etc, make contact with the seller, seems like a great guy, you play the guitar it looks perfect, you're blown away...
You hand over the cash, go home show it to your mates, then a couple of months later someone points out something about the guitar that you never noticed....
and then your worst nightmare happens,,,, you've been scammed...the guitar is a fake, or it is the real deal but the genuine parts have been taken out and replaced with fong-kong junk,,,,,
So my question is, how much do you trust the seller when you plan to spend that amount of money?
Do you insist on opening up the cavity and checking the electronics?
Do you remove the pickups and verify that they are indeed what they should be?
Do you do some sort of background check on the serial number?
And at what point have you crossed the line that you have actually offended an honest seller?
And what recourse do you have if you have been scammed? What if the seller genuinly 'never knew'?
The reality is that con-artists do exist, as do fake guitars etc. and worse is that the seller may have himself been conned and truly believes what he is selling is the real deal.
I bought a guitar once from a famous SA celebrity who was told it had 'Di Marzios' in and when I pointed it out to him that the pickups are in fact cheap rubbish he could not believe he was scammed.
So to what lengths do you GFSA'ers go, to ensure that you have been diligent enough to hand over your cash?
shaunf
I'm certainly not what one would considered a seasoned buyer, but my view on this is that trust only goes as far to whether there will be any sort of transaction or not. As a buyer, I consider it my responsibility to educate myself to the point of knowing what I am buying, and will do whatever it takes to assure myself, even if it includes dismantling the item and checking it out. If that is not an option, then I will price the risk element into my offered price.
christh
I do a fair amount of buy/sell trade and I am usually very careful, and if there is the slightest doubt, I check it out fully. Mostly, I have bought strats, and by now, I know the Fender product reasonably well. When you tell the seller you want to check it out, I have not found the guy to be offended by this. When buying a strat, or other guitar, the obvious 'fake' to look for is a cheaper pickup, e.g. a US strat with a MIM pup.
Costa, you have know me for some time and we've discussed the second hand trade, I was caught once, simply because I was too impulsive, my own fault, but you learn. It's not a case of not trusting the seller, but rather to be cautious.
costafonix
shaunf wrote:
I'm certainly not what one would considered a seasoned buyer, but my view on this is that trust only goes as far to whether there will be any sort of transaction or not. As a buyer, I consider it my responsibility to educate myself to the point of knowing what I am buying, and will do whatever it takes to assure myself, even if it includes dismantling the item and checking it out. If that is not an option, then I will price the risk element into my offered price.
agreed Shaun
christh wrote:
I do a fair amount of buy/sell trade and I am usually very careful, and if there is the slightest doubt, I check it out fully. Mostly, I have bought strats, and by now, I know the Fender product reasonably well. When you tell the seller you want to check it out, I have not found the guy to be offended by this. When buying a strat, or other guitar, the obvious 'fake' to look for is a cheaper pickup, e.g. a US strat with a MIM pup.
Costa, you have know me for some time and we've discussed the second hand trade, I was caught once, simply because I was too impulsive, my own fault, but you learn. It's not a case of not trusting the seller, but rather to be cautious.
Makes sense Chris,
when you say you 'check it out fully' what exactly do you mean? Do you take the instrument apart?
AlanRatcliffe
You do whatever you feel is reasonable to verify you are buying what was advertised.
As you've pointed out, aside from the out-and-out scammers, there are those who themselves have been duped (or are honestly mistaken: many people don't know the difference between "Duncan Designed" and "Seymour Duncan" or "Squier by Fender" and "Fender"). So it's down to you to educate yourself on what to expect and what to look out for. The higher the price tag, the more homework you do and the closer the inspection. Especially with the instruments that are known to be commonly faked.
So yeah, If I have any doubt, I'll pop off a control cavity cover or pull a pickup to look closely. A legitimate seller will not mind - as long as you obviously know what you are doing (and ask first!).
costafonix
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
You do whatever you feel is reasonable to verify you are buying what was advertised.
So yeah, If I have any doubt, I'll pop off a control cavity cover or pull a pickup to look closely. A legitimate seller will not mind - as long as you obviously know what you are doing (and ask first!).
Thanks Alan,
IceCreamMan
issue highlighted is that very often the seller is unaware of the legitimacy of the item blissfully believing whatever he was sold in the first place.
me, if iwere spending 15k on an item from someone I did not know I would be careful and scrutinise as much as possible and checking the interweb too.... its your cash so take as much time as you need. Most legit sellers would have no problem with that.
costafonix
IceCreamMan wrote:
issue highlighted is that very often the seller is unaware of the legitimacy of the item blissfully believing whatever he was sold in the first place.
me, if iwere spending 15k on an item from someone I did not know I would be careful and scrutinise as much as possible and checking the interweb too.... its your cash so take as much time as you need. Most legit sellers would have no problem with that.
thanks ICM,
domhatch
IceCreamMan wrote:
issue highlighted is that very often the seller is unaware of the legitimacy of the item blissfully believing whatever he was sold in the first place.
me, if iwere spending 15k on an item from someone I did not know I would be careful and scrutinise as much as possible and checking the interweb too.... its your cash so take as much time as you need. Most legit sellers would have no problem with that.
and therein squats the toad. i think the most important factor is to first ensure you're dealing with someone who's legit. that type of person is not going to mind how many checks you do to ensure you're getting the dinkum deal - because it follows they believe they have nothing to hide.
that would be where the trust aspect comes in - trust in no-one but yourself and your chosen deity (or lack thereof). that way, if you get scammed, you have nobody to blame.
my tuppence worth
dh|
Big-G
This actually recently happened to me.... I traded my Gretsch for an USA Strat std (what would have been the first strat I'd ever owned), and on initial inspection, everything looked in order. Only on closer inspection, with the aid of another forumite, did we realise that whilst all the hardware and neck was original USA kit, the body at some point had been replaced by a squier body. The body was narrower than a USA body, and was causing the whammy to foul on the back plate. This was the only way we could identify it was not right. A visit to the Fender Rep confirmed our suspicions, and I was left in the awkward situation of sitting with a guitar that was not at all what it said it was.
Thankfully, the seller was very respectable, albeit somewhat shocked when I contacted him, and agreed to trade back. From that perspective, I was very lucky. I felt bad for the guy giving him back a dodgy guitar, but at the end of the day, the guitar was not what it said it was.
Had the seller not have traded back, then it would have left a very sour taste indeed, and my confidence in buying used gear would have been greatly tainted. As it stands now, I will never again buy/trade for a used strat, at least not without having it thoroughly checked over first. There are far too many dodgy strats out there!
Cheers
G!
studmissile
Damit! now you got me wondering who the SA Celebrity was? ?
Chocklit_Thunda
I buy cheapies, so even if they're fake, they're probably still coming out the same factory ?
costafonix
studmissile wrote:
Damit! now you got me wondering who the SA Celebrity was? ?
:roflmao:
sorry man, I am sworn to secrecy,, the reason I mentioned it was a celebrity was not to highlight the person but the fact that scam artists don't really care who they are scamming,,, it can happen to anyone,
studmissile
CostaFonix wrote:
studmissile wrote:
Damit! now you got me wondering who the SA Celebrity was? ?
:roflmao:
sorry man, I am sworn to secrecy,, the reason I mentioned it was a celebrity was not to highlight the person but the fact that scam artists don't really care who they are scamming,,, it can happen to anyone,
Shit I knew you were gonna say that! ?
singemonkey
Always worth mentioning here the benefit of buying from long-time forum members. There's a social investment in the forum which means that (a) they're not going to knowingly scam another member and (b) if they mistakenly misrepresent the sale, there's a powerful incentive to make good.
Charlie4
singemonkey wrote:
Always worth mentioning here the benefit of buying from long-time forum members. There's a social investment in the forum which means that (a) they're not going to knowingly scam another member and (b) if they mistakenly misrepresent the sale, there's a powerful incentive to make good.
I agree 100%.
I bought a guitar from a well respected forum member, completely anonymous and never felt uncomfortable about doing a +10k EFT into his account. To most of us, I believe, the forum does create a safe space to do business in. It's like swimming with shark-net protection at the beach.
Gumtree, on the other hand, is open water and you're swimming with the sharks.
I don't mind a SERIOUS buyer inspecting the guitar and dismantling it so that he feels absolutely sure he's going to buy it.
However, paying for the guitar to be set up, properly cleaned etc. and then being left with a disassembled guitar and no sale is going to bum me out. Only once have I bought an item and felt a bit disappointed about the quality of the item - luckily it was only R100, but it's the principle that counts.
christh
[/quote]
Makes sense Chris,
when you say you 'check it out fully' what exactly do you mean? Do you take the instrument apart?
[/quote]
Yes, I have taken apart and Fender pups have part numbers. I have also wanted to see the neck/body stampings. And, I am prepared to replace strings if needed and I don't buy, provided the instrument is genuine.
Neil-Nitro
A few years back a mate of mine in high-school had his dad buy him an hss "Fender". His is really rich and all and he payed 18k for it. Probably the worsed scam ever... He brought it over with pride thinking he had a legitimate Fender, not knowing anything about serial numbers or anything. The guitar had EMG-like pickup covers and was an iridescent kind of green but the "Fender" logo seemed to be vinyl. Poor guy was devastated. I showed him the body was even plywood. Good ol' dad wasn't happy either... But can you blame em?
