Alternative-rock, quality check

21Fretter

Finally finding time to record some tracks I've been working on.

I still use the basic setup I've used for my other tracks (everything DI and I apply amp simulation) but this time I've removed all effects from Addictive Drums (I remember you guys mentioning it was too compressed, which was the default for the preset I picked and I've just routed it better so I play around with it properly, apply individual high pass/low pass/eq etc).

I want to get a few tips for this track specifically because I have all the elements for a change; guitar, drum, bass and vocals (vocals aren't on this render but I do have them to play around with, they are mostly ideas).

doc-phil

I really like the track.

Talk me through your effects chain for guitars. The tone is good overall, but could maybe do with a bit of surgical EQ here and there to cut out some unneeded frequencies. Which amp sim are you using? At the moment I am finding Ignite Amps' The Anvil 2.0 to be the king of free amp sims. Couple this with a tubescreamer emulation (e.g. TSE or Ignite Amps' one) and you can achieve a fairly good tone out the box when coupled with some good impulse responses (e.g. catharsis, sperimental pack etc).

I'm listening to this on my tiny speakers at work, so it is probably that, but the bass seems a little quiet in the mix to me.

The drums are being overpowered by the guitars, they are very soft and don't have much impact. Are the addictive drum samples preprocessed? Adding some compression can't hurt, just don't overdo it. A shortcut method I like to use is to route my kick, snare and toms to a bus and apply sidechain compression. I go full throttle on the compression, really maxing it out (think the 'all buttons in' approach on certain vintage mixing consoles) and then dialing back the volume on the bus so as not make things sound overly compressed. Blend the compressed bus in with the non-compressed tracks.

Do you have anything on the master bus? If not, I would apply some gentle compression (maybe a ratio of 4:1 at most and adjust attack and release to suit your taste, but nothing too fast). You may want to apply a harmonic exciter there as well, but be careful to be subtle, too much and your higher frequencies, in particular your cymbals on the drums, will start sounding harsh. Another thing you could add on the master bus is a touch of reverb to glue things all together. From the wave form of your track it appears as if you have applied some limiting, which is in 99% of cases necessary on the master bus in modern music, but you could probably have a few extra dB in there, taking into account that there isn't a great deal of dynamic range in the track. That's not a bad thing, its just typical of this genre, and others within rock and metal.

These are all just things I would look into doing. I think the main thing to aim for is to achieve a sense of cohesion between all the instruments. At the moment the separation of the drums from the rest of the mix depreciates from the quality of the track.

I would be very interested to hear this with vocals, I think it has potential.

Since you tagged the song on SoundCloud as Alter Bridge, I trust that you are enjoying Fortress, which I was listening to prior to spotting your post.

21Fretter

Thanks doc!

Setup:

Rhythm guitars: 2 double tracked, hard left and right pan

TSE808 -> Nick Crow 7170 -> kefir w/ catharsis preshigh impulse

I group the two tracks and apply a PodFarm slap plate and EQ (high pass @100hz, low pass @10khz, 4db cut @500ish).

Bass: 1 track

I simply use a PodFarm bass simulation. it is a Silverface copy + compressor. It doesn't seem there are too many great free bass vst's floating around but I should have applied the TSE BOD emulation.

Mixing bass has been an issue for me because I think my speakers might exaggerate them considerably (they are far from mixing speakers), my friends Rockits had basically no bass presence even though it was pretty audible on mine.

Lead: 1 track

Same as the rhythm.

Drums

Addictive's samples may be pre-processed. When you talk about maxing out the compression, what would my attack, release etc values float around? Mixing drums has not been a focus for me at all, I need to put time into it.

Nothing on the master (that I've applied).

I love to get a solid "template" down because most of my tracks are along the same genre lines.

doc-phil

The Nick Crow 7170, as with most amp sims, requires a ton of EQ. If you dial through your frequency range with a band with a narrow Q and +12dB, they will jump out at you immediately. As soon as you hit them, cut them right out with a narrow 12dB cut. I normally do this 4 or 5 times on these amp sims. You will notice your guitar sound will clean up a lot this way.

I normally low pass my rhythm guitars around 15khz, I don't know, 10khz seems a bit low, you don't want to cut out all of the highs.

For bass if you aren't able to go and buy yourself an actual bass guitar (which you can pick up fairly cheaply if you look at Ibanez or Cort) then I'm sure there must be some free DI bass samples that can be used with the free Kontakt Player or some other soundfont player.

If you're mixing on multimedia speakers you're bound to have poor referencing. Those speakers will typically have boosts in the highs and lows which make it difficult to hear what you're actually doing.

When I mentioned sidechain compression on the drums, I set the fastest attack and release times. This works because I blend the compressed bus with the non-compressed original tracks so it doesn't sound like I'm squashing the heck out of it.

If you want to apply compression directly on each track, you just need to experiment with the attack and release times, do what sounds best. I just operate on the guideline that the faster the attack and release, the more noticable effect the compressor will have on your sound. For snare and kick, I favour faster attack times with a lower ratio, whereas on bass I favour slower attack and release times, but with higher ratios to compensate for my erratic playing.

It is nice to think that you can get a template and record directly into it and not have to make any further mixing decisions, but if you do that you're kind of boxing yourself in to one specific sound. Anytime you add something different, whether it be a new instrument, or even a new effect, you will have to make a number of changes to your template to cater for that change.

doc-phil

For bass, you can start with something like this:

http://www.cakewalk.com/Download/sfz.aspx

together with:

http://www.turtlesounds.net/

The big daddy is of course this: (but you can buy an actual guitar for cheaper)

http://www.spectrasonics.net/products/trilian.php

21Fretter

I do actually have a bass; DI'ed and applied the amp sim like the guitars.

I'm not sure what you mean about the 12db narrow sweep, after 1k hz, it all has a harsh'ness to it.

Template isn't ideal in the long run obviously but all the tracks would mostly be demo's, I would want to go into the studio eventualy. I don't have too much time unfortunately during the varsity semester so it's more so I can get ideas down acceptably.

doc-phil

Oh I see, not sure what I was thinking about your bass.

This is a good option: http://www.kvraudio.com/product/shb-1-by-ignite-amps

It's hard to explain the EQ sweep, just google it and you'll see. You will pick out particular frequencies all over the show that need to be removed.

If you think you don't have time during varsity to jam and produce, wait until you start work ? if I get 5 hours a week that's winning.

AlanRatcliffe

Good track & I like the guitar and bass sounds as well as the overall tonality .

To my ear, it's not so much the drums are too quiet, but rather that the rhythm guitars are a bit too loud in the mix.

The roomy sound of the drums also doesn't work for me - I'd rather keep them tighter (particularly kick and snare).

The guitar solo suffers quite a bit from the noodles - doesn't really go anywhere.

21Fretter

Thanks Alan.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
To my ear, it's not so much the drums are too quiet, but rather that the rhythm guitars are a bit too loud in the mix.

I believe you mentioned this on my other clip as well. I think it's as a guitarist you kinda want to make sure everyone hears and you overplay it a bit.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: The roomy sound of the drums also doesn't work for me - I'd rather keep them tighter (particularly kick and snare).

I actually removed all reverb I believe from the kit so the samples may be preprocessed slightly like doc asked. How would I cut the room-yness in this case, use high and low passes?

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
The guitar solo suffers quite a bit from the noodles - doesn't really go anywhere.

Fair enough, it was complete noodling. Did it in 2 takes (there are few off notes, weak slides/bends etc), it's more of a 'placement' for the solo/I'll refine it, show the sound that I plan to go for.

AlanRatcliffe

21Fretter wrote: I believe you mentioned this on my other clip as well. I think it's as a guitarist you kinda want to make sure everyone hears and you overplay it a bit.

Very true. I've experimented with having each member of a band I was in sit down with the engineer for an evening and do their mix. Then we sat down and decided which elements we liked from each and mixed it together with those things in mind. It's interesting what different instrumentalists find in a mix...

I actually removed all reverb I believe from the kit so the samples may be preprocessed slightly like doc asked. How would I cut the room-yness in this case, use high and low passes?

Gates are the most effective - especially if the mics/tracks are separate.

it's more of a 'placement' for the solo/I'll refine it, show the sound that I plan to go for.

Fair enough. ?