Just an observation

ryanguit

We are all wired differently...

Why are guitarists so hard on themselves? Practice schedules, must not stagnate, and competitive. If I can't do it like "famous-name" then I give up or sell gear to force myself to move before I set another ultimatum. Sure we are muso's so some of us do it for a living, and selling gear is part of survival. But often I see guys selling gear when they would happily still play that guitar every now and then (more often than the guy they prob sell it to on gumtree), AND even worse, don't even need the money. It's like some punishment for not achieving some stupid goal that you promised yourself.

In all the arts, being highly critical can be very good at building something. Can be. I've spent way too much time in the past accumulating gear, getting inspired, chiseling away every wrong/incorrect thing, selling gear. While simultaneously decreasing in my confidence to produce anything of worth. Rinse and Repeat.

Anyway, I'm just saying that if the guitar makes you happy, play it. If you enjoy recording, do it. But don't set yourself goals in art. If it's your career, then goals might work for some people. In most cases. It just promotes competition, and sets you up for failure.

I have 3 close friends. I set the next goal:
goal A get 5 close friends.
goal B get 10 close friends.
goal C get 20 friends.
goal D get 50 friends.

When did the goal replace the friendship? when you lost the close friends you had gained. Art is about the relationship with the medium. Keep your heart in it. It's not hard.

Sidecar

Nice post. If you stop having fun, what is the point?

AlanRatcliffe

Why? It's mostly guys that play guitar and it's partly the male competitive spirit, which helps drive us to become better at what we do and to achieve things. That's a hard-wired impulse. Yes, it's a bad thing if the competitive aspect takes over and becomes the focus rather than the driving force, but without it we would probably all stopped learning when we reached the point where we could bash out three chords to impress some girl. We all have the drive, but he smart person channels the drive to productive ends.

Similarly, being self-critical helps drive us to improve, but being overcritical can hold us back (one of my myriad shortcomings). We also develop as critics though and the balanced critic realises it takes more than just playing technique to become a good musician and we learn to be performers and entertainers too.

As with anything, goals are important to our progress, as they help us improve and also gauge that improvement. Setting unrealistic goals is detrimental to progress, but that shouldn't lead to you setting no goals at all.

Yes, it's important to remain in touch with the music and the art, but that's no reason to stagnate and the best musicians have balance between progressing as players and performers while still creating music.

singemonkey

So what about the women on this forum, Alan? Are you saying they're just wallowing complacently along? ? If so, how'd they get so damn good?

Attila

Here you go

AlanRatcliffe

<sigh> I knew that was gonna get me in trouble... ?

No, I'm not. In fact, I think the competitiveness might drive some of them away. On the whole, I think they have a more balanced approach to learning and progressing from the start.

studmissile

inherent or intrinsic human competitive spirit?

singemonkey

I agree in principle with Alan. Competition and the desire to be better than we are is what inspires us to go beyond banging out three chords. But a healthy perspective is good too. You've got to congratulate yourself on your progress rather than hating yourself until you can play like John Petrucci. I still can't play like I wanted to be able to 3 years ago, but I can also do things that would have blown my mind back then. So yeah. La lutta continua.

IceCreamMan

firstly , I reckon we are more wired similarly then differently , more similar that we think.

interesting point and one well taken. I as an individual am goal oritnetated, its how I motivate myself to achieve things and no different in the guitar/music sphere. Achieving these goals in to me what Maslow termed self actualising. These goals are not necessarily "I will play like eddie in 6 months" but more " I will play a gig in 6 months" so not competitive with anyone in anyway but myself..

ultimately , to me guitar an music is a passion, it does not necessarily always have to be enjoyable but it has to be enjoyable overall or else I would find another passion which is. Time is way to precious to waste these days

Keira-WitherKay

the question to ask ...is it competitive.... or i tend to find many musicians to be extremely 'jealous" or "envious" of others ability or success.......

as soon as someone gets some form of recognition there's a slew of musicians who have to break down what the musician achieved....

and why i think for many it's NOT competitiveness....cos i know a few musicians who if they see someone who in old blues speak "would cut their heads off" or blows them away musically ...only a few would be driven to practise harder or drive them to improve ....BUT most i find ,prefer to try shoot holes and rather discredit the successful one and NOT work harder themselves which in my opinion is more envy or jealousy

and to me healthy competition is what can make one grow as a musician ..but i care nothing for anyone who breaks down another due to envy or jealosy ... a trait in many musicians i have met in my years in the industry....

studmissile

Keira WitherKay wrote: the question to ask ...is it competitive.... or i tend to find many musicians to be extremely 'jealous" or "envious" of others ability or success.......

as soon as someone gets some form of recognition there's a slew of musicians who have to break down what the musician achieved....

and why i think for many it's NOT competitiveness....cos i know a few musicians who if they see someone who in old blues speak "would cut their heads off" or blows them away musically ...only a few would be driven to practise harder or drive them to improve ....BUT most i find ,prefer to try shoot holes and rather discredit the successful one and NOT work harder themselves which in my opinion is more envy or jealousy

and to me healthy competition is what can make one grow as a musician ..but i care nothing for anyone who breaks down another due to envy or jealosy ... a trait in many musicians i have met in my years in the industry....

Bob-Dubery

singemonkey wrote: I agree in principle with Alan. Competition and the desire to be better than we are is what inspires us to go beyond banging out three chords. But a healthy perspective is good too. You've got to congratulate yourself on your progress rather than hating yourself until you can play like John Petrucci. I still can't play like I wanted to be able to 3 years ago, but I can also do things that would have blown my mind back then. So yeah. La lutta continua.

I think this is not uncommon. I think a lot of the guys we look up to are working away a lot of time. They're fab players and they have loads of peer and critical acclaim but they still have a gap between what they want the music to sound like and what they can actually deliver in real time. Though at that level the increases are smaller and less obvious and take longer to realise (or so I think).

kayDUB

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Similarly, being self-critical helps drive us to improve, but being overcritical can hold us back (one of my myriad shortcomings). We also develop as critics though and the balanced critic realises it takes more than just playing technique to become a good musician and we learn to be performers and entertainers too.

As with anything, goals are important to our progress, as they help us improve and also gauge that improvement. Setting unrealistic goals is detrimental to progress, but that shouldn't lead to you setting no goals at all.

Yes, it's important to remain in touch with the music and the art, but that's no reason to stagnate and the best musicians have balance between progressing as players and performers while still creating music.

Agree here.
I don't think it is possible to express art effectively without confidence - if you aren't confident in the value of your art and ability to express on an instrument, you aren't going to be very effective.
I think what I am saying is that it is good to be realistic with areas we should improve, but you also need to be able to be realistic with the things that you do well... don't totally berate your playing so when you pick up the guitar you feel like you shouldn't even be holding it (extreme example!).
The good thing is that my art is not your art, and we are all potentially better at different things... i.e. I don't necessarily have to be an insane technical guitarist to express myself effectively. But again that doesn't mean I shouldn't push myself technically.
Art can be as simple and complex as we want it to be.

So what I'm saying is a cat is black. Or brown. ?

ryanguit

I think the thing that upset me enough to write this, is watching people change direction instead of add to their palette. Wow how much shorter of a post this is.

MrFacepalm

Interesting topic that I have had many an awesome conversation about. First off, I find the 'overly critical' view of one's own performance to not only be limited to guitarists. I suffer from that as a producer too, and a DJ, and a father, a husband, etc. It is human nature to want to improve, and giving yourself the odd kick in the butt is really nothing out of the ordinary. Part of the human condition I guess.

I am honoured enough to have been able to share a few moments speaking to Steve Vai rapping about the music biz and so. The one thing he stresses is goals are essential. But he also stresses that big goals need to be broken down into little ones to make them manageable. Kinda exactly what Alan was saying. (I apologise in advance, the guy is my friggin hero, I will even be throwing up recorded snippets of that convo at times ROFL).

Another very interesting little thing he dropped in our ears that day, was to stop stressing about your weak points. And accentuate your STRONG ones. There are many, many niche players happily and confidently doing their thing in their own unique way. This does miracles for confidence trust me. Thing is, if you are the competitive sort, and you spend your time working on stuff that doesn't come naturally, you are in for a tough time. Because there will be a whole heap of fellas that ARE naturals at it, and they want the same gig...

Having the ability to set reasonable goals is the one thing all successful people have in common. Thing with playing music is, we invest our mind-state in the work we do, which in turn perpetuates the mind-state. So it is essential to be reasonable with yourself. Once you get unhappy with your music it is a nasty little spiral. As we all know it takes some work/meditation to get out of those 'funks'. Buuuuut we do it to ourselves lol.

Stagnation is a little, well, boring. Stay in that safe pocket too long and the world will leave you in the dust wondering what happened lol. But for guys earning their bread and butter off it, stagnation can also be survival. Tough biz if you want to earn your bread from it. Music is best approached as the world's greatest hobby if you want to be HAPPY with it.

singemonkey

MrFacepalm wrote:
Another very interesting little thing he dropped in our ears that day, was to stop stressing about your weak points. And accentuate your STRONG ones. There are many, many niche players happily and confidently doing their thing in their own unique way. This does miracles for confidence trust me. Thing is, if you are the competitive sort, and you spend your time working on stuff that doesn't come naturally, you are in for a tough time. Because there will be a whole heap of fellas that ARE naturals at it, and they want the same gig...

This is an excellent point. I should take this advice.