Original guitar sound, does it exist?

Jayhell

Well, I have been thinking about this for a while now, wouldn't it be great to have an original guitar sound, where people turn their heads and say 'wow, that's a great sound, I've never hear a guitar sound like that.' But then there is something in the way called practicality. The first limitation is gear, it would be nice to have all the overdrive pedals in the world in front of you and you get to pick and choose what works for you, but you don't, so work with what you got. The second thing is the usability of the sound. Turn the tone off your neck pick down and dial that fuzz to 11, wow, what a sound, but can you use it in practice? Maybe one part in one song somewhere? The third thing is who you play with. My lead guitarist is absolutely content with his sound and he won't change it for the world. He likes it "fat" and powerful, his cleans are super clean and his distortions are super distortions. (Les Paul > Ds-1 > MT-2 > MG100). So again this limits me because I have to try and use the frequencies that are left. I don't really mind, I have a lot of room...

I have a bunch of pedals, my main rig (DS-1 > Flanger > BAd MOnkey > TU-2) and then a Boss ME-70 Multi FX, LPB-1, Big muff Pi, Rocktron Silver Dragon. Ok so it's not that much, but enough to play with. Some days I like to just take them all out and try find something different but usable. I love the sound of the Big Muff especially with the LPB boosting the life out of it, I love the weird octave effects on the ME-70, although the overdrives suck in my opinion. I love The Silver Dragon (Google it if you don't know it, it's really something amazing), but seriously 13v power supply, no optional battery, form factor of at least 4 boss pedals next to each other! Sounds so amazing, but I can't rely on something that I can't substitute (or can I?). But then I have to carry around 2 power supplies and no power brick has a 13v output, this seriously screws with my board. Anyway... Then I jam around, change the order of the pedals, judge what sounds best, what is the most practical lay out etc.. Then in the end I always end up with my current set-up. It just works! It's not original, but it sounds good and works well with others. The fact that I actually use my DS-1 as a booster for the monkey might be a bit of an original idea, but it does not sound so original. The flanger adds some colour and I can use it for an interesting tremolo effect from time to time and and it can go chorussy if it needs to. Again not very original.

But all this comes down to; is there really something like an original guitar sound? Even the original guitarists out there (Morello, Homme, Jack White, who ever) do they really have an original sound? Morello's general sound is really basic and his solos and stuff are basically original noise, Josh Homme plays very fuzzy/over driven stuff on his neck pick-up. Jack white just forces everything through everything. Unique sounding, sure. But the moment you copy or emulate this, it's not original, is it?

So what am I getting at? Do you think that there are more guitar sounds out there that are not discovered yet, or do you think there is just a hand full of tonal options and we got to make it work?

Chocklit_Thunda

Jayhell wrote: Well, I have been thinking about this for a while now, wouldn't it be great to have an original guitar sound, where people turn their heads and say 'wow, that's a great sound, I've never hear a guitar sound like that.' But then there is something in the way called practicality. The first limitation is gear, it would be nice to have all the overdrive pedals in the world in front of you and you get to pick and choose what works for you, but you don't, so work with what you got. The second thing is the usability of the sound. Turn the tone off your neck pick down and dial that fuzz to 11, wow, what a sound, but can you use it in practice? Maybe one part in one song somewhere? The third thing is who you play with. My lead guitarist is absolutely content with his sound and he won't change it for the world. He likes it "fat" and powerful, his cleans are super clean and his distortions are super distortions. (Les Paul > Ds-1 > MT-2 > MG100). So again this limits me because I have to try and use the frequencies that are left. I don't really mind, I have a lot of room...

I have a bunch of pedals, my main rig (DS-1 > Flanger > BAd MOnkey > TU-2) and then a Boss ME-70 Multi FX, LPB-1, Big muff Pi, Rocktron Silver Dragon. Ok so it's not that much, but enough to play with. Some days I like to just take them all out and try find something different but usable. I love the sound of the Big Muff especially with the LPB boosting the life out of it, I love the weird octave effects on the ME-70, although the overdrives suck in my opinion. I love The Silver Dragon (Google it if you don't know it, it's really something amazing), but seriously 13v power supply, no optional battery, form factor of at least 4 boss pedals next to each other! Sounds so amazing, but I can't rely on something that I can't substitute (or can I?). But then I have to carry around 2 power supplies and no power brick has a 13v output, this seriously screws with my board. Anyway... Then I jam around, change the order of the pedals, judge what sounds best, what is the most practical lay out etc.. Then in the end I always end up with my current set-up. It just works! It's not original, but it sounds good and works well with others. The fact that I actually use my DS-1 as a booster for the monkey might be a bit of an original idea, but it does not sound so original. The flanger adds some colour and I can use it for an interesting tremolo effect from time to time and and it can go chorussy if it needs to. Again not very original.

But all this comes down to; is there really something like an original guitar sound? Even the original guitarists out there (Morello, Homme, Jack White, who ever) do they really have an original sound? Morello's general sound is really basic and his solos and stuff are basically original noise, Josh Homme plays very fuzzy/over driven stuff on his neck pick-up. Jack white just forces everything through everything. Unique sounding, sure. But the moment you copy or emulate this, it's not original, is it?

So what am I getting at? Do you think that there are more guitar sounds out there that are not discovered yet, or do you think there is just a hand full of tonal options and we got to make it work?

IMO there are SO many sounds out there that just haven't been touched yet.... Generally the guitar is quite a "traditional" instrument with its players being among the whiniest bunch whenever the smallest aspect of it is changed. Most guitars today are still based on their old Gibson LP or Fender strat/tele forefathers with minor changes (And even some of those models were contested upon their release)... Think of the sonic difference we could find in an all aluminium guitar? Or perhaps if we changed the formula for the pickup? Why do you think Gretsch filtertrons, Fender wide range and Charlie Christian pickups sound so unique? They have entirely different material specs from the run of the mill humbuckers or single coils. this taken to extremes gives us the Lace Alumitone pickups which have no windings. Instad, they're a solid conductor around magnetic pieces and it gives quite a different sound.

I think the key to getting a unique sound is to stop trying to replicate the sounds of yesteryear... (not that there's anything wrong with that because old Led Zep sounded so good!)

AlanRatcliffe

Yes, there are other "new" sounds out there. Many are even accessible using the traditional tools - the same guitars, amps and effects that others use. Something you touched on is that these new sounds often lack context - without which they are often just odd sounds.

It's something that always amazes me about Adrian Belew - he has all these completely oddball sounds, some even totally ugly by themselves, but somehow he manages to turn them into music.

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AlanRatcliffe

Malkav

Came in here to fly the Adrian Belew flag, but turns out I don't have to ?

There's also Henry Kaiser, who makes some crazy sounds, but generally he's kinda unmusical and I've personally come to the opinion that I don't actually think he knows how to play guitar, he's just faking it and everybody who likes him is just playing along as if they'd be out on some elitist secret if they ever admitted it's just noise...

Oh and this guy who's awesome and musical and has unique tone and technique:

Wizard

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Yes, there are other "new" sounds out there. Many are even accessible using the traditional tools - the same guitars, amps and effects that others use. Something you touched on is that these new sounds often lack context - without which they are often just odd sounds.

We were discussing innovation at work recently.
This same point was made.

At the time the car was invented, people weren't asking for cars.
They were asking for faster horses.
The first car had to resemble a horse drawn carriage (without the horses) to allow people to take the step.
If Henry Ford had rolled out a Ferrari, the people of the time would not have accepted it.
And it wouldn't have worked on the roads at the time.

21Fretter

I do feel people we will originally tend toward a specific musicians sound to form a baseline (we are all influenced by our inspirations, we learn their songs, often like their tone etc) but once we have that roundabout sound, we are going to make changes to suit our needs. Hopefully WE become someone else inspiration and the circle continues. I think it's slow but new sounds do emerge.

Bob-Dubery

For me originality is more about dynamics and note choice than about tone or sound. And you can only push things so far before you start sounding like another instrument - at which point maybe the other instrument is what you should be going for.

Another thing: I remember when the first Casio synth guitar arrived (I worked for the Casio agents back then). We were quite impressed by the way you could plug it into a synth and use the harmonica sound or the Rhodes sound. Thing is, it generally sounded more like a guitar than a harmonica or whatever. The attack is different, the licks you play are different and so on. So the new sound probably requires new ideas (or the other instrument). Obviously if your budget can't stretch to a keyboard player and you only need that Rhodes sound occasionally then the synth might work for you.

I think the way things sound is more about notes than we think. Big Country tried to get a bagpipe sound into their guitars. They went for a sound with a lot of sustain and (I think, but don't know) compression. It basically ended up sounding like electric guitars with lots of sustain, though they did tend to eschew blues scales and licks, which helped a bit.

Richard Thompson has gone another route. He's mastered a lot of licks and the use of passing notes from the piping canon. He sounds a lot more like bagpipes - even when playing acoustic guitar.

Adrian Belew is the interesting case in all of this. He has figured out not only new sounds but ways of using those sounds so it doesn't just sound like a weird sounding guitar or a guitar trying to sound like something else. It is, I think, a considerable feather in his cap. His whole approach is truly original.

The thing about the guitar is that we approach it like a guitar and play guitarish things on it. Even if we make it sound different we still play it like a guitar, so it tends to sound like a guitar. Change what you play and you'll sound different is what I think.

PS: Henry Kaiser. He does get really noisy, and sometimes sounds like what I used to fool gullible types into thinking was "modern jazz". However, he can get into other areas. I've got a couple of albums at home by the occasional collaborative outfit French, Frith, Kaiser and Thompson and either Kaiser never plays a note or he's capable of playing melodic and even (gasp) conventional guitar parts.

V8

X-rated Bob wrote: The thing about the guitar is that we approach it like a guitar and play guitarish things on it. Even if we make it sound different we still play it like a guitar, so it tends to sound like a guitar. Change what you play and you'll sound different is what I think.

Wise words indeed!

There's always scope for (dare I say it) fusion of genre's - In style/technique and processing. I'm fascinated by the multitude of processing possibilities in the electronic era that weren't available (easily) before (Adrenalinn, Guitar Rig, Guitar Synths, loopers).

I'm fairly heavily influenced by electronic music, so I tend to try and emulate eq sweeps, saw basses, and ambient styled sounds - all in the cause of evolution.. ?.

kapepper

Jayhell wrote:
I have a bunch of pedals, my main rig (DS-1 > Flanger > BAd MOnkey > TU-2) and then a Boss ME-70 Multi FX, LPB-1, Big muff Pi, Rocktron Silver Dragon. Ok so it's not that much,

With all do respect, maybe people are trying to much to make themselves sound good through all these pedals....if you look for a good-original sound its just you, your guitar and your amp... all the rest is distraction....but then again, i am obsessed with "original authentic sound"... my biggest way of changing sound is changing strings ?

Rescator

original sound is in the fingers and in the soul ...
all the rest is technology ...
and talking about technology , one need only Kemper for amp sounds and Afe Fx for effects today ..everything is there ...

Banditman

Fun discussion.

You could argue that Fender and Gibson DID create original guitar sounds in the Tele, Strat and Les Paul. Like it or not, they've become the benchmark tones and designs for most electrics since then. In that sense - played clean - they are original.

Then there's original in the sense of instruments like the Parker Fly, Olaf Diegel's 3D printed guitars, or way-out stuff like the Teuffel Birdfish.

A few days ago I plugged the most responsive, sweet Strat I've touched in a while straight into a Blues Junior at my LGS. No pedals, no nothing. Yes, it was everything you expect a Strat to sound like, to a T. And yes if I'm honest I've been seriously considering of trading in mine for it, and it's only an American Special - not a Custom Shop job (but strewth its lovely).

But I can't claim originality - I can hear the influences on my playing. It may be my way of playing, but it doesn't jump out as a complete new direction.

And we haven't even touched on effects pedals.

Which brings us to original in the sense of the style, compositions and technique of the individual artist. "Original" and "masterful" don't always translate to mass appeal. While some artists like your original blues , rock and metal heroes spawned generations of disciples inspired by their styles, other brilliant musos were/are just too way out there for the average guitarist in the music shop. It's why you find many more players inspired by Jimi/Stevie Ray/Page/Hammet/Van Halen/Dimebag/Satriani than Zappa/Belew et al.

That might be because the former group have something that calls out to many people, while the latter appeal only to the very musical/very bright/mildly insane (my tongue's firmly in cheek, guys).

Just play the sound/song that's in your heart and fingers and enjoy it.