Atmarama
Hey guys, I have been looking for a strat to compliment my Tele. Seemed to have found a really nice Japanese made Squier at the right price and was about to pull the trigger - only thing is it has a Floyd Rose II tremelo. I know absolutely nothing about using a Floyd Rose, but have heard they can be a bit of a ball ache...
I am by no means an 80's shredder or anything, and was wondering what your thoughts/opinions are on Floyd Rose trems - a bit of whammy I can use for texture but if it means a whole lot of frustration...
Keen to hear your thoughts ?
guidothepimmp
Its only a mission if you don't know how to set it up. (But, how will you ever learn if you don't try it). and if you intend using alternate tunings like dropped d and all that.. otherwise they're cool to mess about on. Nothing wrong with the Floyd rose 2. Just check the knife edges are not completely worn.
I always say you gotta have one floyded fiddle in your arsenal
Key in set up is stretching the strings.
Chocklit_Thunda
They work. I'm not a fan (I don't do the divebomby stuffs often) but they do what they're supposed to very well ? Use a butter knife to keep the trem up when you change the strings and you're set. ?
Does it have a locking nut? Those can be a bit or a 'mare to get used to. Thing is though, you could probably find another nice regular trem strat second hand if you keep looking. It's up to you whether you want the FR or not. Personally I'd take the FR just because it CAN do more if you want it to ?
And also +1 on what guido says about the knife edges and saddles. They can be soft zinc or pot metal and wear down after a while.
ftcl
+1 to guidothepimp and Choclkit_Thunda
My 2c?
They're an absolute PIA to set up if you don't know what you're doing. But once set up properly, they are fantastic. In fact, my Cort X-9 has the best sustain of any guitar I have ever owned, or played.
Atmarama
guidothepimmp wrote:
Just check the knife edges are not completely worn.
How do you do that? Where are the "knife edges"? Please excuse my FR ignorance...
Chocklit_Thunda
Knife Edges are the points of contact between the trem and the 2 trem posts
AlanRatcliffe
I usually recommend against them unless you really need the benefits they bring. In short, they suit some players, but they don't suit others. They require a soft touch and a lot of control from both hands.
Yes, you can learn to set them up, and they offer a range of whammy abuse far beyond a normal synchronised or floating trem. But they still take a lot more PT to do anything from string changes to setup than a regular trem. There are also other ways they affect playing - flat double-stop bends, flutter, sensitivity to hard playing, etc. There is also a tonal impact if you are chasing more traditional Strat tones.
Malkav
Chocklit_Thunda wrote:
Knife Edges are the points of contact between the trem and the 2 trem posts
To echo this statement, this is the knife edge:
It's the point at which the bridge contacts the body.
In my opinion Floyd style bridges are wonderful, and with units like the tremol-no installed you can go from floating to fixed, which means tunings like drop D are attainable without throwing everything out of whack:
I'm going to sound a bit douchey saying this, and for this I do apologise, because Squier do make fantastic instruments, however in my opinion unless it's a high quality floyd, like the originals, Schaller and Gotoh or a high quality permutation like the Ibanez edge bridges (The ones you get on prestiges) they tend to not be the most stable. This is not to say it may not be a fantastic guitar, just more so that if you go full Steve Vai on it then you may experience tuning discrepancies, however for average tremolo related use it should be fine.
Psean
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
I usually recommend against them unless you really need the benefits they bring. In short, they suit some players, but they don't suit others. They require a soft touch and a lot of control from both hands.
Yes, you can learn to set them up, and they offer a range of whammy abuse far beyond a normal synchronised or floating trem. But they still take a lot more PT to do anything from string changes to setup than a regular trem. There are also other ways they affect playing - flat double-stop bends, flutter, sensitivity to hard playing, etc. There is also a tonal impact if you are chasing more traditional Strat tones.
+1
The thing that I like the least is that it's easy to accidentally bend notes slightly sharp if you palm mute a lot. The only Floyd guitar I've played was strung with 9's though, so I'm not sure if that's a common thing. The double stop bends were a bugger to get used to too. Didn't work for me but it was right for the guy whose guitar it was.
arjunmenon
I'd say buy it. That looks like an original floyd rose.
Those string clamps at the nut look skew, so check for uneven wear.
Going based on the pics, that fretboard needs some oiling.
Mighty fine looking guitar that, and its an HSS strat to boot.
AlanRatcliffe
It is a good guitar, but if it doesn't suit you, you won't play it. I've seen that countless times (hell, I've been that a few times too ?).
What type of music are you playing? Do you lean more to SRV or Dimebag Darrell? Gilmour or Vai? Do you play with a light touch and with fast legato technique or do you beat the guitar into submission?
ZarK
Most of my guitars over the years have had FR's. Once you know how to set them up properly, they offer better tuning stability than anything else I've played to date. I agree with a lot that has already been said. The secret to setting them up is that at the end of a string-change, all the strings should be stretched completely. Another important thing to know is that when you tune a guitar with a FR, you should consider all the strings as a unit in respect of string tension (when tuning up and down), not each string's tension individually as with more traditional bridges. On a FR you need to balance the tension across all the strings. If for example you have two strings above pitch and one or two below and you increase the tension in the lower pitched strings by tuning them up, the higher pitched strings will automatically have their tension released and their pitch will decrease. If you do the balancing correctly, you'll often end up tuning only one or two string to bring three or more to the correct pitch -if the guitar was in balance previously. This is also crucial knowledge when setting the correct angle on the bridge. Its all about balance... The beauty of a good FR that's properly set-up is that they can stay in tune until the next string change, even if you abuse the whammy from time to time. Disadvantages include (based on the balancing of string tension across the board principle I've mentioned), that when you bend a string, all the other strings will be slightly flat for the duration that the added tension of the bend is being applied. You'll get used to pitching the adjacent string(s) slightly when doing bends. I'd recommend setting the guitar up for one tuning only and with the gauge- and type of strings you prefer. Once you've found a set-up that works for you -stick with it. Over time the neck, truss-rod and bridge etc. will settle at the specific tension of your set-up and you'll be left with an uber-stable instrument with consistent action.
Regarding strings etc. 9's should be fine if you usually play 9's or even 10's on a fixed bridge guitar. The FR should add some overall tension compared to the same strings on a fixed bridge guitar with the same scale length. If you palm mute correctly just in front of the bridge, you won't experience any pitching. The FR will certainly help improve your right hand placement and RH technique...
I highly recommend getting a decent quality FR guitar to anyone willing to learn how to operate them correctly. You do not have to aspire to be a Steve Vai clone to reap the benefits. For some it'll be a perfect second guitar. Definitely less troublesome to experiment with alternate- and drop tunings on something with a fixed bridge. The Tremol-no offers fixed-bridge capability, but I'm a firm believer that you should rather allow a FR equipped guitar to settle over time at a specific tension if you wish to reap the benefit of the incredible tuning stability they have to offer. I'd maybe use the Tremol-no to fix and un-fix the bridge at a specific tuning only -if need be. Certainly not to assist with drop and alternate tunings. Just my personal take on things.
If the price is right, I'd probably go for that Strat if I were you...
P.S. My favourite FR's of all time are from Ibanez. The original edge and lo pro edge certainly are at the top of the list for feel and tuning stability. The new edge zero's a close 3rd for feel but the adjustable thumbscrew makes the balancing of string tension an absolute breeze compared to the rest.
All of the best!
Atmarama
Thanks for all the replies folks, eish, still confused though... I've always wanted a Japanese made strat for some reason too :-\
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
What type of music are you playing? Do you lean more to SRV or Dimebag Darrell? Gilmour or Vai? Do you play with a light touch and with fast legato technique or do you beat the guitar into submission?
Into pretty much americana rock, the beatles, stones etc - more an acoustic player really, but getting into more electric lately - also do quite a bit of recording...
AlanRatcliffe
Atmarama wrote:
Into pretty much americana rock, the beatles, stones etc - more an acoustic player really
I stick to my recommendation - I don't think a Floyd is for you.
I've always wanted a Japanese made strat for some reason too :-\
There's a Fender Jap Strat in the classifieds that I know is a good'un - I chose it myself. I took the two best examples from a whole
container load of Jap Strats, took one for myself and sold the other to an old customer/friend. He's more of an acoustic player, so it's in mint condition.
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/classifieds/?sa=view;id=3525
ZarK
The guitar will do the styles you're after and a lot more. It'll add a lot of tonal- and technique related options if you have a Tele already. Its only a schlep to set up a FR if you do not understand that you just need to balance the strings as a unit and that a change in tension of one, will effect them all. It is a floating bridge after all! Once you understand it and take the time to stretch the strings properly with every string change, You'll be left with an instrument that stays in tune better than you can imagine -assuming that the bridge is in good shape.
If this sounds like too much of a mission, maybe you should be looking for a more traditional Strat? Personally I don't mind taking a little bit longer to change strings when I know I won't have to constantly fiddle with tuning till my next string change. Maybe just a little fine tuning here and there at the very most... When I used to gig, I always had an identical FR equipped backup guitar in case of a string break. Then again, I cannot recall ever snapping a properly pre-stretched string even when abusing the whammy -unless the strings where long overdue for replacement.
Bottomline:
Floyd Roses are fantastic. I love them. You must be willing to learn how they work otherwise you will be frustrated. I learned the hard way through trial and error and tons of frustration along the way. If you understand how they work, they're a breeze to set up and offer unmatched tuning stability and the capability to take extraordinary whammy abuse. If you don't see yourself dedicating some time to understand how they work and how to set them up, I'd rather look out for a more traditional Japanese made Stratocaster. You won't get the same tuning stability or be able to do the techniques a FR will offer you, but there won't be much of a learning curve compared to your Tele.
NorioDS
I LOVE the tuning stability myself. But all I ever use the tremolo for is for simple stuff, so I've come to realise that a simpler guitar will do.
As far as I know, wouldn't a good nut and good bridge give you similar tuning stability? I'm know next to nothing about the tech side, so please ignore me if I'm being dilly :d
ZarK
Norio wrote:
I LOVE the tuning stability myself. But all I ever use the tremolo for is for simple stuff, so I've come to realise that a simpler guitar will do.
As far as I know, wouldn't a good nut and good bridge give you similar tuning stability? I'm know next to nothing about the tech side, so please ignore me if I'm being dilly :d
I'd always recommend the simplest guitar (and other gear in general) that satisfies the individual's needs. As long as the quality and tone is decent and it stays in tune within reason, I'm happy. Often a waste of time to over-complicate things... A FR may be over-complicating things for many but in reality there is nothing to fear once you understand them. Top of the range locking tuners combined with the same quality nut and bridge will come close. Only problem is that strings won't return to their original condition 100% consistently under extreme whammy use. Locking nuts eliminate any string slippage over the nut and therefore also help to maintain the balance of tension in the neck better than the best non-locking guitars I've owned and in my experience, of course. Maybe it has more to do with the locking nuts than the actual FR in the end. A Fixed bridge axe with locking nuts is probably as stable as you're likely to get.
chris77
I kinda think of them as the guitarist's equivalent of a swimming pool. You have to learn how to swim first, but if you use it frequently it is a wonderful thing to have. But if you can't swim or you only want to dip your feet in the water every now and then, well, then It really isn't worth the schlepp.
AlanRatcliffe
Regardless of how well set up they are, there is still an element of instability - not from failing to return to pitch (that's what they do better than anything else), but from incidental/accidental whammying. This is not a problem for those with a light touch (or those wanting to develop one), but for those of us who play... errr... forcefully, it is.
Case in point: I get vibrato on every single note on a Floyd equipped guitar due to the way my right hand digs into the strings (I'm not alone in this - the late, great Allan Faull had the same problem). I also often intentionally vibrato single notes in a chord, and it's not possible to do that without affecting all the other notes. Oh, and I use .011s... Plus for guys who use blues or country double-stop bends, it can be quite annoying that they always end up flat.
Don't get me wrong - they do what they do better than anything else, and there's a lot of stuff you can only do with a Floyd. It's just that they are better suited to a lighter touch and the more controlled player.
