Goose-ZA
Hi there,
I've recently started messing around with recording and I was wondering if any guru's had some simple tips for getting a nice big sound without clipping. I'm a recording n00b so I don't know much (if anything) about acceptable levels, EQ etc.
I'm running my guitar through a Line 6 Toneport UX1 straight into my PC via USB and I'm recording with Cubase.
1. What kind of input levels should i be aiming for
2. Should I use compression on my guitar signal?
3. What other advice can you give me? I know this is a very large topic but basics will do ?
Oh.. and like I said, I'm a recording n00b so use small words and speak slowly ?
Manfred-Klose
2 things you can look into is compression and doubling of the audio sample(copy the signal and paste it in a new track,experiment with a slight time delay and also experiment with the panning).
Or even record different takes with a different sound maby and blend it all.
The possibilities are endless.
Goose-ZA
Thanks for the reply. I generally layer my tracks and this works quite nicely but overall the song just seems to lack balls. I can't push the final output high enough without clipping issues.
Will I need to mess with the EQ to solve this? Sorry if these are silly Q's
deanBailey
Whats your master chain look like?
Can you maybe post a pic of your spectrum analyzer (if you have one) ?
Or even better, a sample clip of the project.
Goose-ZA
Um.... I have no idea what you just said ?
As for the sample clips, most of my recordings came out ok but I find myself always having to drop the final output quite a bit and I was just wondering if that was normal or not. I am REALLY new to this so I have no idea what sort of db output I should be aiming for etc.... or to be honest... what most of that stuff means =)
I'll try upload something and get back to you.
[Edit] Where is a good place to upload files to share?
Manfred-Klose
You can uplaod a sample using the uplaoder on the top of the guitarforum website right next to the chat icon.
Golden rule about EQ: rather take away EQ instead of adding, when adding too much EQ it can boost unwanted frequencies and possibly cause clipping.
You can go read up on "audio mastering", it is the final process where a audio file is prepared for a CD, making it loud enough and sounding nice, although i would not recommend doing this on your own, it is a great way to make your demos sounding nice and gain experience.
Are you using cubase SX3?
deanBailey
I try to never touch the Master fader.
Adjust the levels of each track in the mix to suit the master fader at 0. Then use a limiter on the master buss until it starts sounding squashed or distorted then bring it back a few dB.
The compressor is very handy to keep your levels even should help a little to control those peaks a bit.
Neps
getting a big sound can mean a lot of things. But if it's just from a guitar perspective Manfred has a cool idea with playing the part in different way ,panning or just doubling the part with a slight delay.
EQ plays a big part here as well. If you have a couple of instruments playing at the same time you can do a number of things to get a bigger sound eventhough this might sound funny: If you have bass, drums and guits.. something I do and have recently heard quite a few of big names do is putting a highpass filter on the guit. )thats the little button on a plugin EQ that looks like one side of a table top), to around 400Hz. Jip its quite steep, but that creates space for other more bassy instruments and stops you from overloading your master out, cause the guits are not overpowering the bass range. Same with kicks, I have 2 mic's and the one will have a very deep low pass filter on (the opposite from the highpass), and then blend that with the other kick to add 'snap' to the sound.
EQ is a help, but as Manfred said, rather take away with EQ before adding. I do add a lot of EQ but thats for FX rther than trying to make space for a sound, cause then you can end up having clashes in certain ranges and instrument parts.
Level of recording in digital is not as high an issue as it is on tape, cause you can manipulate the sound quite far in digital. Just get a good level and pay attention to creater space for everything in the mix. If you fr example want that big rythem sound (like my fav guitarist mark tremonti :-[), they double up quite a bit on the guits. And they also play around with the panning, record the same part, but with diffrent amp settings, diffrent guitars and amps, and that makes the guits sound BIG.
Goose-ZA
This is probably the best result I've gotten. After listening to it it's actually not as bad as I originally thought. I think I duplicated all the guitar tracks in the song to get it sounding a bit fuller.
It came out nicely in the end but I remember having to drop the volume a bit because it would clip around the solo. Any ideas why? I'm playing Rock and Roll (Led Zep) over a backing track (drums and bass) that I found online.
http://gfsa.s3.amazonaws.com/1164/Rock%20and%20Roll%20(1).mp3
deanBailey
You're just talking about getting it louder right? Not necessarily bigger as in tone? Or am I misunderstanding?
Goose-ZA
Yup. I seem to be getting the knack of finding decent tone but the overall volume of the track seems a bit low. If i pump it up though it starts to clip. And i don't want to just compress the crap out of it, I'd rather learn how to do it the right way.
deanBailey
The simple answer (to add to what everyone else has said) would be use a limiter on the master buss. you can boost a few dB before any noticeable distortion occurs. But be careful 'cause some of them chew up snares and other percussive instruments.
Goose-ZA
Thanks everyone for the advice! ?
majestikc
Here's the best advice I can give you for getting the over all volume of your track "louder".........you turn the volume knob on whatever it is your listening up, it's usually a biggish knob, and you turn it clockwise.
majestikc
Seriously!
Listen to most modern "commercial" albums and your tracks probably aren't even half as loud, BUT, listen to any really good recording from any era and you'll find that your tracks are just as loud. if not louder.
Go on youtube and search for something like "the loudness war" to see why you'd want to actually avoid trying to get your tracks as loud as your modern recorded cd's.
Like I just said, if you want it louder, turn the volume knob up, that's why it's there.
deanBailey
Label demand Albums to be louder because they want their album to stand out from others.
Mastering engineers really get nailed by labels if they master way to soft.
I'd personally prefer if the standard loudness level of albums could be brought down quite a bit so the dynamics can breathe for a change!
majestikc
Exactly!
And this was mainly done back in the day of Jukebox's where there'd be a whole bunch of records going and it was a good trick to have yours the LOUDEST so it would jump out above the rest and get peoples attention more, basically.Actually when you research it a bit, all the stupid things that get done to recordings/albums that ruin them, were all done for mostly commercial reasons, and not artistic ones, and some practices that are still copied, were done because of the physical limitations of vinyl etc, such as cutting as much low end from the mix/master as possible because low frequencies literally took up more space on the actual vinyl album, reducing the overall playing time and how many tracks you could fit on it etc.Now, last time I checked, we aren't recording to, or using vinyl LP records anymore (except DJ's, but who cares about them), so WHY make a week, low end lacking recording and then blast/rape it as loud as possible just because "that's the way it's always been done" etc.
Have you heard that little story about the girl who asks her mother why she always cuts the corners off the roast?
If you haven't, then the reply was: "well, that's just what my mother always used to do", then when the mother phoned up her mother to actually find out why her mother always used to cut the corners off the roast, her mother replied: "well, because I never had a pan that was big enough?".
AlanRatcliffe
I think you'll find it dates to CD changers, rather than jukes. The nature of a vinyl record meant that they couldn't make it too loud or the needle would jump out of the groove.
majestikc
I know, but from what I've read, that's were it all started, making the records as loud as they could, and then it just carried over to cd, were they could push it even more.But it's mainly the "reason" behind why they started doing it in the first place that counts.
