Limit Posts Per Day: The Off-Topic Lounge

NorioDS · 2013-10-03T13:34:18+00:00

The Off-Topic Lounge generates a lot of noise which some feel (myself included), dilutes the value of the forum. Removing it entirely would probably be quite painful and drastic. Locking it down would maybe be the same so what if we just limit the number of posts in it per day? There's some existing code out there to do this that I could modify to make it work. What do you guys think?

wirt

I don't know, man... If you don't like off-topic posts, don't read them? I get that it's a guitar forum and people want informative guitar-related content instead of off-topic banter, but I think the unspoken assumption is that reducing the latter will result in more of the former. I believe both of them are in their own, distinct realms as far as "production" is concerned, but inhibiting one will only be to the detriment of both.

I see the Off-Topic lounge as the place where everyone chills while waiting for something interesting to happen, and I believe that is what it is being used for at present. Not that I have any hard data to back this up with, just a hunch.

Norio wrote We don't put in a limit but I modify all the "Recent Posts" type things to not show anything OT. THAT could work!

If I may suggest a slightly different solution: Change the "Recent Posts" section to "Recently Updated Threads" and show thread titles in order of times they were last posted to, instead of individual posts. This would make more threads visible, prevent "quality", but low post-count, threads from being shoved down before anyone can see them and yet not hide popular but "low-quality" threads. Just a suggestion ?

NorioDS

wirt wrote I think the unspoken assumption is that reducing the latter will result in more of the former.

That's not my assumption, nor my understanding. My assumption is that diminishing the OT stuff will help the guitar-stuff stand out and, maybe, encourage more discussion on the guitar-stuff.

wirt wrote If I may suggest a slightly different solution: Change the "Recent Posts" section to "Recently Updated Threads" and show thread titles in order of times they were last posted to, instead of individual posts. This would make more threads visible, prevent "quality", but low post-count, threads from being shoved down before anyone can see them and yet not hide popular but "low-quality" threads. Just a suggestion ?

A lot more work than it sounds like but it sounds handy.

NorioDS

Nice post, Joe Moore

AlanRatcliffe

Norio wrote My assumption is that diminishing the OT stuff will help the guitar-stuff stand out

Joe Moore wrote I thought why waste my time and bother composing and posting a report back about silly amplifiers on a guitar forum .

Wrong approach guys. Every engineer knows that the easiest way to improve a low signal to noise ratio is to raise the level of the signal, rather than try reduce the noise. Sure, it's possible to reduce the noise, but only with a lot of effort. Add your signal input into the mix and you improve the ratio a little - and when enough folk add their input to yours (and it doesn't actually take many), while the noise may still be there, it soon fades into the background.

So if you listen to a system and find some noise, the best approach is to plug in and add your signal, not unplug and walk away. Anyway, enough of that metaphor... ?

Maybe it's just the influence of my first luthierie teacher (who was an out-and-out hippie), but I believe those of us with something of value to impart should make a point of doing so - simply to honour those who shared their knowledge with us to help us get where we are. I think that if all the people I've helped here in the past had to post one useful thing a month, this forum would be abuzz with useful stuff that we could all learn from.

Even with the off-topic stuff, we should try remember the spirit with which it is intended - as the sharing of something someone finds interesting with people they regard as friends. You can't actually fault anyone for that.

Anyway... enough musing and pseudo-whatever rambling for one evening...

Skylark

Alan makes some brilliant points, wholeheartedly agree!

Every forum is identical to this , communities of people that come together with a shared passion, the OT is an important part of the community.
Any post that's not spam or trolling is valuable.

As Norio said taking the OT stuff out of recent items list is maybe a good option so the people not interested in OT don't get derailed by seeing it, the others that know and desire that interaction will go straight there when they want to because they know where it is. It needs to be there but it's better if it doesn't swamp the rest of the forum, because those threads can overwhelm things a bit.

But then again that's life people must toughen up/wise up!!
I've learnt to largely stay away from the OT sections on many forums.
But I can categorically state OT sections take nothing away from the rest of a forum, trolls can inhabit them but the mods can keep an eye on that, as with any section.
Despite having OT sections people are just as helpful and eager to discuss things in the main sections and anyway I've learnt many very interesting things in OT sections of forums, it's often a spectacle worth witnessing. I've also seen many people struggling with life or with difficult decisions getting picked up and supported by the fellow forumites and thats a good thing.

wirt

Skylark wrote Alan makes some brilliant points, wholeheartedly agree!

Every forum is identical to this , communities of people that come together with a shared passion, the OT is an important part of the community.
Any post that's not spam or trolling is valuable.

As Norio said taking the OT stuff out of recent items list is maybe a good option so the people not interested in OT don't get derailed by seeing it, the others that know and desire that interaction will go straight there when they want to because they know where it is. It needs to be there but it's better if it doesn't swamp the rest of the forum, because those threads can overwhelm things a bit.

But then again that's life people must toughen up/wise up!!
I've learnt to largely stay away from the OT sections on many forums.
But I can categorically state OT sections take nothing away from the rest of a forum, trolls can inhabit them but the mods can keep an eye on that, as with any section.
Despite having OT sections people are just as helpful and eager to discuss things in the main sections and anyway I've learnt many very interesting things in OT sections of forums, it's often a spectacle worth witnessing. I've also seen many people struggling with life or with difficult decisions getting picked up and supported by the fellow forumites and thats a good thing.

+1 to you, good sir. I feel much the same.

I would like to ad my 2c as well:
I've been on this forum for about a year now, starting when I decided to rededicate myself to the guitar. I like 95% of the content on here and I try and contribute where I can. Problem is that I'm just a beginner. Still pretty crap, still largely ignorant on many topics related to guitar playing. Believe me: I'd love to be able to partake in discussions about whether the Fender Blackface or Marshall JCM-what-have-you is better to use for a particular tone or stuff along those lines, but I'm just way to ignorant on any such topic to contribute in a meaningful way. So I shut up and sit quietly while the grown folks talk about it and I absorb what I can, and I love you guys for having those conversations in a place where I might learn from it. But the ONLY place on this forum where I MIGHT be able to make a contribution is on the off-topic lounge where maybe I can post something to make a few people chuckle or intrigued on some topic unrelated to guitar to which I'm not largely ignorant or inexperienced. Otherwise the only thing I'd be doing is posting questions about gear maintenance and beginner's guitar playing questions, and I'd much rather contribute in whatever limited way than just leech off of the fine and much more talented and knowledgeable people on this forum.

So, please, do whatever you want to to make me easier to ignore, if that's what you want I won't argue, but please don't shut me up.

Sean

wirt wrote
Skylark wrote Alan makes some brilliant points, wholeheartedly agree!

Every forum is identical to this , communities of people that come together with a shared passion, the OT is an important part of the community.
Any post that's not spam or trolling is valuable.

As Norio said taking the OT stuff out of recent items list is maybe a good option so the people not interested in OT don't get derailed by seeing it, the others that know and desire that interaction will go straight there when they want to because they know where it is. It needs to be there but it's better if it doesn't swamp the rest of the forum, because those threads can overwhelm things a bit.

But then again that's life people must toughen up/wise up!!
I've learnt to largely stay away from the OT sections on many forums.
But I can categorically state OT sections take nothing away from the rest of a forum, trolls can inhabit them but the mods can keep an eye on that, as with any section.
Despite having OT sections people are just as helpful and eager to discuss things in the main sections and anyway I've learnt many very interesting things in OT sections of forums, it's often a spectacle worth witnessing. I've also seen many people struggling with life or with difficult decisions getting picked up and supported by the fellow forumites and thats a good thing.
+1 to you, good sir. I feel much the same.

Warren

My 2c:

I've got a lot out of this forum. Off the top of my head:

- I have met a lot of members in person, and many of those people are now good friends. I currently play with another forum member in a great little cover band. An ex-member played the guitar while my wife walked down the isle at our wedding, through a PA system borrowed from another member.

- I've bought and sold a few things through the forum or directly from members. I had a Highway 1 Strat from Brent (my first Strat evar) and the Okko Diablo+ pedal that is still my primary drive on my board from Joe Moore. I've moved quite a few smaller items through the forum classifieds, and never had any issues.

- I've learned a tremendous amount about everything related to guitar: music theory, repertoire, technical stuff, recording stuff, guitars brands and models, strings, luthiers etc. I've learned all this stuff for free, just because other people have been happy to chat and share their knowledge.

It's hard to quantify, but that's the gist of it, I think.

Yes, I don't see as many interesting guitar-related discussions as I used to, and it's confusing to me why people keep certain inane threads hooning along for page after page but post almost no comments on sound/video clips, comparisons, gear reviews, etc. In those periods I just read less of what is posted.

But that's what forums are like: for example, I don't ask so many recording questions because I now have most of the knowledge I need (much of it gleaned from GFSA). I'm not sailing through gear like I used to because I want to focus on maximising what I have i.e. actually *playing* the guitar better. I have changed, both in terms of where I am with my playing and where I'm going, and you could say the same of most people on here. Collectively, the amount of time we have to contribute and the way we use that time will shift and change as our lives move along, and that's just how it goes.

One thing that won't work is to try and force people to contribute along only certain lines, beyond the rules that are in place to avoid discussions around certain topics (the "religion and politics" rule is wonderful IMO). There is some stuff in OT that I find absolutely mind-numbing, but obviously other people find it engaging, so I just avoid the stuff I don't like and focus on the stuff that I do.

Jack-Flash-Jr

ShreddySmurf wrote My 2c:

I've got a lot out of this forum. Off the top of my head:

- I have met a lot of members in person, and many of those people are now good friends. I currently play with another forum member in a great little cover band. An ex-member played the guitar while my wife walked down the isle at our wedding, through a PA system borrowed from another member.

- I've bought and sold a few things through the forum or directly from members. I had a Highway 1 Strat from Brent (my first Strat evar) and the Okko Diablo+ pedal that is still my primary drive on my board from Joe Moore. I've moved quite a few smaller items through the forum classifieds, and never had any issues.

- I've learned a tremendous amount about everything related to guitar: music theory, repertoire, technical stuff, recording stuff, guitars brands and models, strings, luthiers etc. I've learned all this stuff for free, just because other people have been happy to chat and share their knowledge.

It's hard to quantify, but that's the gist of it, I think.

Yes, I don't see as many interesting guitar-related discussions as I used to, and it's confusing to me why people keep certain inane threads hooning along for page after page but post almost no comments on sound/video clips, comparisons, gear reviews, etc. In those periods I just read less of what is posted.

But that's what forums are like: for example, I don't ask so many recording questions because I now have most of the knowledge I need (much of it gleaned from GFSA). I'm not sailing through gear like I used to because I want to focus on maximising what I have i.e. actually *playing* the guitar better. I have changed, both in terms of where I am with my playing and where I'm going, and you could say the same of most people on here. Collectively, the amount of time we have to contribute and the way we use that time will shift and change as our lives move along, and that's just how it goes.

One thing that won't work is to try and force people to contribute along only certain lines, beyond the rules that are in place to avoid discussions around certain topics (the "religion and politics" rule is wonderful IMO). There is some stuff in OT that I find absolutely mind-numbing, but obviously other people find it engaging, so I just avoid the stuff I don't like and focus on the stuff that I do.

NorioDS

Alan Ratcliffe wrote Every engineer knows that the easiest way to improve a low signal to noise ratio is to raise the level of the signal, rather than try reduce the noise. Sure, it's possible to reduce the noise, but only with a lot of effort. Add your signal input into the mix and you improve the ratio a little - and when enough folk add their input to yours (and it doesn't actually take many), while the noise may still be there, it soon fades into the background.

The first thing you're taught when you're learning to be more productive or manage your time better is to drop the fluff. Limit Facebook, limit email consumption, close your door, etc.

In our case, the noise-to-signal ratio may be high enough to warrant quietening the noise a bit to better hear the signal.

That said, I don't want to be a meany and say, "No more fun stuff folks!". I think the "personal preferences" thing would pretty much fix this issue for ALL involved and even offer some other unforeseen benefits to scenarios no one has really considered yet.

AlanRatcliffe

Norio wrote The first thing you're taught when you're learning to be more productive or manage your time better is to drop the fluff. Limit Facebook, limit email consumption, close your door, etc.

Aye, but this isn't work for most, it's recreation - including the OT stuff. Limiting OT too much would be akin to taking away some of someone's recreational freedoms.

In our case, the noise-to-signal ratio may be high enough to warrant quietening the noise a bit to better hear the signal.

Sure... Ideally we both reduce the noise and boost the signal. But I don't think we need drastic measures to achieve this. Remove the OT stuff from the newsletter and give folks the option to remove it from their "Latest posts" feed. I'll also keep a tighter reign on the more absurd OT threads (and maybe automatically cap the post count in those threads). That should do it for now.

I cant help but feel that this is at least partly my fault as I am insanely busy and haven't been able to post as much or as often recently (thanks to a new house, sale of another and wrangling teams of builders, plumbers and still trying to get some paying work done in the gaps - I have an angle grinder outside my window now and someone with a hammer in the next room). That situation should change soon (please...). As soon as it does I'll tackle the problem head on (Thinks: what about a few volunteer contributors who endavour to start a few interesting threads a week?).

NorioDS

Alan Ratcliffe wrote Remove the OT stuff from the newsletter and give folks the option to remove it from their "Latest posts" feed. I'll also keep a tighter reign on the more absurd OT threads (and maybe automatically cap the post count in those threads). That should do it for now.

I'm very happy with those but will still add the preferences as a sort of opt-in filter. I've always wanted this on forums I've been on so I'll do it for purely selfish reasons ?

Alan Ratcliffe wrote I cant help but feel that this is at least partly my fault as I am insanely busy and haven't been able to post as much or as often recently (thanks to a new house, sale of another and wrangling teams of builders, plumbers and still trying to get some paying work done in the gaps - I have an angle grinder outside my window now and someone with a hammer in the next room). That situation should change soon (please...). As soon as it does I'll tackle the problem head on

Don't beat yourself up. Everyone in this forum knows how awesome you are and how much you've contributed to GFSA. IMO, if it wasn't for you, this forum would've sunk before it started. So take your time, sort your stuff out and, in the meanwhile, I'll continue to wreak havoc here as I've done since Wednesday night ?

Alan Ratcliffe wrote (Thinks: what about a few volunteer contributors who endavour to start a few interesting threads a week?).

I like the sound of that!

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